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Matt_Cohn

Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« on: March 21, 2025, 05:15:56 PM »
I was contemplating today how a certain par 3 might be improved. The hole is very short and very downhill; the green is decently large and wide open in front, with the trouble at the back and around the sides. The course overall is a challenging, championship-style course, so this hole stands out somewhat. 


The usual list of great short par 3’s is filled with forced carries, from water ones like 12 at Augusta and 17 at Sawgrass to sand ones like 7 at Pebble and 13 at Merion.


Are there any great short par 3’s where the green is open in front?

« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 05:37:15 PM by Matt_Cohn »
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Michael Felton

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2025, 05:25:17 PM »
The 4th at Deal might qualify - you couldn't hit a putter from the tee, but in front of the green is just short grass.
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Wade Whitehead

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2025, 06:33:26 PM »
#13 at Bandon Preserve (but you're probably talking about holes on regulation golf courses).

WW
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Sam Morrow

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2025, 07:20:41 PM »
12 At Wolf Point is similar in length to 12 at Augusta (probably a little shorter for most) and completely open, I've seen people tee off with a putter there.
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Ira Fishman

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2025, 08:56:15 PM »
Interesting question. Elie 11 comes to mind. What is the definition of short?
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Matt_Cohn

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2025, 10:19:46 PM »
Quote from: Ira Fishman on March 21, 2025, 08:56:15 PM
Interesting question. Elie 11 comes to mind. What is the definition of short?


Probably under 175? This particular hole maxes at about 140 and like 50+ feet downhill.
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Ally Mcintosh

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2025, 03:29:14 AM »
Quote from: Ira Fishman on March 21, 2025, 08:56:15 PM
Interesting question. Elie 11 comes to mind. What is the definition of short?


I could add ‘what is the definition of open in front’?


Because there are a lot of great, short par-3’s that could qualify if you are accepting 10-15 yard run-ins without any obvious fronting bunkers. There are far less if you want to be able to more or less putt on to the green from the tee.
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Thomas Dai

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2025, 04:40:50 AM »
Needs a tighter definition of width at the front. Width between bunkers/water also plays different to width between humps and hollows as does short grass approach vrs manicured rough.
atb
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Niall C

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2025, 08:24:12 AM »
I'm still trying to get my head round 175 yards being considered short !  ;D


Niall
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Sven Nilsen

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2025, 09:18:44 AM »
Sounds a good bit like the reverse Redan hole at Sleepy Hollow.
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Tom_Doak

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2025, 10:04:37 AM »
7 at Barnbougle.


But it doesn’t make much sense to have the green open in front on a downhill hole where the shot isn’t likely to run onto the green anyway.
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Kyle Harris

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2025, 11:20:14 AM »
The 11th at Fairwinds in Fort Pierce, FL.

120 yards or so on a windy site. No bunkers. Variety of hole locations. Long is OB, short is persnickety.
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Sean_A

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2025, 11:23:59 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on March 22, 2025, 10:04:37 AM
7 at Barnbougle.


But it doesn’t make much sense to have the green open in front on a downhill hole where the shot isn’t likely to run onto the green anyway.

Why not? Seems like the green could be open or defended.

Ciao
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Dan_Callahan

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2025, 11:38:40 AM »
The left side of the 7th green at Royal Melbourne (West) is open at the front and plays pretty short. It isn't downhill, though.
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Simon Barrington

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2025, 03:42:50 PM »
Quote from: Niall C on March 22, 2025, 08:24:12 AM
I'm still trying to get my head round 175 yards being considered short !  ;D
Niall
Me as well, to those of us who considered that distance a "mid/long" or "long" iron back in the day, this description just jars...


My "Short" is sub 145, but its not my thread...
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Jim_Coleman

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2025, 05:40:34 PM »
   Agree on sub 145.
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Ira Fishman

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2025, 08:54:09 PM »
Sheep Ranch 5 and 16? I cannot remember exactly how open the openings were.
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jeffwarne

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2025, 09:38:45 PM »
11 at Palmetto?
Gotta clear the road but you've got 50 yards after that of fairway
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Mike_Young

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2025, 10:23:49 PM »
Pin positions are a part of the overall green design.  Positioning a pin where it was not designed to be positioned does not make it a pin position.  JMO
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Mark Pearce

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2025, 07:40:29 AM »
If 175 is the cut off for a "short" par 3, then in addition to Ira's suggestion of 11 at Elie (much as I love Elie, though, I'm not convinced the 11th is a great par 3, rather than a good one), I'll give you the 13th at Muirfield, which definitely is great.
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Ira Fishman

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2025, 07:53:47 AM »
Mark,


I probably did let my love of the course elevate the quality of 11 at Elie, but it indeed is a good hole.


What about 5 and 8 at Eden? At least very good?


Ira
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archie_struthers

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2025, 08:55:50 AM »
 ::) 8)


In our area the 5th at Woodcrest (Flynn 1929)  is an awesome and surely unappreciated hole as the course flies under the radar. Open in front about 140 yards but a myriad of difficulty in making a three.


False front in front , tough bunkers flanking ! hit it perfect or look out
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Matt Kardash

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2025, 11:35:30 AM »
How about the little 100 yard par 3 14th at Cabot Links. Pretty much nothing in front if my memory serves me well.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2025, 11:38:43 AM by Matt Kardash »
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Matt_Cohn

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2025, 01:55:27 PM »
Quote from: Jim_Coleman on March 22, 2025, 05:40:34 PM
   Agree on sub 145.


I just always hear of 12 at Augusta as a short par 3 and that's 155. The hole I'm thinking of is 143 from the tips so it fits anyway!
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Mark Pearce

Re: Great short par 3’s where the green is open in front
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2025, 05:10:28 PM »
Quote from: Ira Fishman on March 23, 2025, 07:53:47 AM
Mark,


I probably did let my love of the course elevate the quality of 11 at Elie, but it indeed is a good hole.


What about 5 and 8 at Eden? At least very good?


Ira
Yes, both at least very good.  I think 8 is slightly better than 5 but would happily elevate both.
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