fairway bunker placement

[Tommy Williamsen]

I live at a little golf/ski resort in western Virginia. We will be doing some bunker work: rebuilding, moving, and adding. I have been asked to do some work on fairway bunker placement.


As I was going through the course and thinking about adding fairway bunkers, I wondered if a bunker belonged on the inside or outside of some doglegs. I could make an argument for either.


Is there some rule of thumb?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tommy,


The list of possible bunker schemes is almost endless.  Somewhere, I have a list of very general bunker concepts that I made years ago.  Assuming all holes might be classified as having at least a slight dogleg, it went something like this:


Forced Carry Bunker (rare)
Angled Carry Hazard (inside or outside of fw)
Flanking Bunker (inside or outside of fw)
Pinch Bunkers
 - (inside or outside of fw)
 - Both Sides (i.e., RTJ)
Staggered Bunkers -
 - 2 inside/1 outside
 - 1 inside/2 outside
 - 2 each side
Centerline Bunkers
No bunkers
 - Easy Shot
 - No bunkers but fw contours affect play
Combo Concepts, i.e. Angled Carry Bunker inside, Flank bunker outside, etc.


I think there are more, and if I find the list I will be glad to update these.  On one hand, with all the options, I always found it offputting to see only flank bunkers.  Of course, the architect is responsible for placing them in suitable topography rather than forcing it in, and placing them in the right place for a balance of strategic interest.....even though we now know that angles don't matter as much as we thought.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Crowd source some ideas.... share the google maps link.... pick your favorites


there are no rules of thumb IMO except when you are adding/moving/changing/removing a bunker from an individual hole or holes you are actually effecting the entire course - it's balance, rhythm, flow, strategy, dynamics....  everything has purpose in a work of art or a good golf course


cheers & good luck

[Tommy Williamsen]

there are no rules of thumb IMO except when you are adding/moving/changing/removing a bunker from an individual hole or holes you are actually effecting the entire course - it's balance, rhythm, flow, strategy, dynamics....  everything has purpose in a work of art or a good golf course


cheers & good luck

Those are good points about changing the balance and rhythm of the course. We have relatively few fairway bunkers. There are half a dozen places where a boring hole could have more interest off the tee. But it does change the course's rhythm. Probably worth it, though.

[Kalen Braley]

I've always thought if the inside of a dogleg already has other penalties like high rough, thick trees, OB, etc then its beyond redundant to add a bunker too.

Perhaps figure it out old school, do some sleuthing and see where the biggest concentration of divots are found and you have your answer.

[Matt Schoolfield]

As I was going through the course and thinking about adding fairway bunkers, I wondered if a bunker belonged on the inside or outside of some doglegs. I could make an argument for either.

From a penal perspective, bunker placement is straightforward, and a bit arbitrary. However, from a strategic perspective an inside and outside dogleg bunker will serve vastly different purposes, Beyond that, depending on the handedness of the player, the direction of the dogleg will also matter.

I'm only designing things on 2k23, but I would say, generally, when I think about theoretical locations for a fairway bunker, from strategic perspective, I look at the green and think  "why do I want to be here (or very near here)." However, if I'm thinking about a penal bunker, I look back a the tee and think "why would a bunker here be a problem for someone on the tee." Obviously this isn't the whole story, and there is reflexivity where one bunker's placement changes the strategy of the hole so you have to iterate again and again, but that's the basic idea.

The straightforward reason for a inside the corner bunker is to add risk to folks trying to cut the corner.

The reason for a outside the dogleg will be more nuanced. If the ground cants toward the outside of the dogleg, a bunker can add risk to a shot that runs out into it, meaning the person on the tee might need to lay up short of the corner. If the green complex rewards a position on the far side of the dogleg (Augusta 11th, or a dogleg version of O'odham #5), then a bunker on the outside can make the strategic position more dangerous.

[Rob Marshall]

When we redid our bunkers the architect who posts here said he likes them on the inside of the dogleg not the outside.

[Keith Williams]

Tommy,


Perhaps think about working backwards from the greens.  Are there some greens with a decidedly favorable side of the fairway to approach from?  And how might fairway bunkers be incorporated to make positioning for those approaches more strategic?


-Keith

[Thomas Dai]

It may be worthwhile bearing in mind if a small hollow or small mound placed where you’re considering placing a bunker mightn’t have merit instead?
Likely to be less expensive construction wise and require less maintenance over time.
Just a thought.
Atb

[Kyle Harris]

A bunker on the inside corner of a dogleg is not necessarily strategic if there's no significant trade-off by avoiding it. It's just geometry to defend the direct route to the hole and a club or two difference in avoiding it (especially under 175 yards in the modern game) isn't moving the shot dispersion toward it. If anything, there's more risk that the dogleg removes the strategic value of the bunker while simply adding penal value to it.

Place the bunker in the spot where contour/firmness quickly moves the ball away from the green if avoided and forces a significantly longer approach as a result.

[Tom_Doak]

Nearly all of the Golden Age architects placed their fairway bunkers on the inside of the dogleg.  If you renovate an old course and add bunkers to the outside, it’s a huge tell.


They did that because equipment was different and good players’ carry distances were not consistent, so you could catch them on a bad shot.  That’s not true in this era.  Padraig Harrington told me “I’m never going to miss 8 yards short from 200 yards.”


But Pete Dye still did not believe in putting bunkers outside the dogleg. He said if the bunker was not in reach of a particular player, you were just giving them an aiming point , and if it was in reach, they’d aim to the left or right of it.


So the best fairway bunkers for Toir players are no fairway bunkers, as we mostly did at Memorial Park.  And the best bunkers for average golfers are still on the inside of the dogleg.

[Sean_A]

I have played plenty of holes where the outside of the dogleg was the place to.be meaning it can make sense to make it risky to play in that direction. Fairway bunkers and features depend greatly on greenside bunkers, features and green slopes/contours.

Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

Thanks. Although, now I am more confused. Adding a couple of bunkers on straight holes seems easier than doglegs. After reading the posts, I am inclined to suggest adding fewer bunkers than I thought I should.


For instance, the sixth hole is a gentle dogleg to the right, about 400 yards long. The green opens up from the left. If the tee ball ends up on the inside of the dogleg, it is its own penalty. Adding a bunker there only adds to the grief. If I add a bunker on the outside of the dogleg, it would take away the strategy of the hole. I don't think a bunker adds anything. It certainly doesn't add to the strategy.


This is why clubs hire architects to do the work.

[Kyle Harris]

Thanks. Although, now I am more confused. Adding a couple of bunkers on straight holes seems easier than doglegs. After reading the posts, I am inclined to suggest adding fewer bunkers than I thought I should.


For instance, the sixth hole is a gentle dogleg to the right, about 400 yards long. The green opens up from the left. If the tee ball ends up on the inside of the dogleg, it is its own penalty. Adding a bunker there only adds to the grief. If I add a bunker on the outside of the dogleg, it would take away the strategy of the hole. I don't think a bunker adds anything. It certainly doesn't add to the strategy.


This is why clubs hire architects to do the work.

Must it be an A or B proposition? Is there an option C? Perhaps something at the approach?

[Joe Hancock]

I hope Mike Nuzzo will expound on this, but as to the rythem/ flow/ strategy, etc., here’s a couple thoughts:


1) Make hard holes harder, when it’s more intuitive to make easy holes harder. Having difficult stretches preceeded or followed by easier stretches of the course is one aspect of rythem and flow.
2) Think about the routing, and where natural drama occurs. It’s good to have parts of the course that stimulate the senses, and those feelings are accentuated by allowing other parts of the course lull you into complacency.
3) Mix up the distances, ultimately allowing the topography to dictate the randomness ( Oxymoronic architecture?)
4) Only build what your (current and anticipated future) resources allow you to maintain.

[Wade Whitehead]

Thanks. Although, now I am more confused. Adding a couple of bunkers on straight holes seems easier than doglegs. After reading the posts, I am inclined to suggest adding fewer bunkers than I thought I should.

I think such restraint is key. If you're uncertain at all about a bunker, hold off.

Yes = Yes
No = No
Maybe = No

I also think placement can depend on the Superintendent's maintenance plan. If all bunkers are surrounded by rough, as is done at most places (including, if I recall, Bryce), they end up being in certain places. If bunker "entrances" are short grass, they can be used in an entirely different manner.

Are you considering any bunkers for purely aesthetic reasons? Any you are thinking about as aiming points (but which would be, essentially, out of reach for a good shot? Some well-placed bunkers might never even be found by a golf ball.

WW

[Kalen Braley]

1) Make hard holes harder, when it’s more intuitive to make easy holes harder. Having difficult stretches preceded or followed by easier stretches of the course is one aspect of rythmn and flow.

Joe I think this is a nice little nugget right here.

I'd rather play a tough 4.5 par 4, followed by a 3.5 par 4 vs one with a lesser differential like 4.2/3.8. I've noticed these kinds of sequences/combinations the most on Tom's courses like Ballyneal, RCCC, and Pac Dunes.

P.S.  Tommy, in your example where you talk about coming in from the left is best...isn't the essence of risk/reward having to take on danger to get an advantage or preferred position for your next shot?

[Ian Andrew]

When we redid our bunkers the architect who posts here said he likes them on the inside of the dogleg not the outside.

Rob,


I prefer my bunkers to ask a question about position. How close can you play to them to gain an advantage on the next shot. That's how I plan them. That's occasionally on the outside like your 2nd and the 7th holes, where the angle is better into the green. But if I'm trying to create a decision, its more often on the inside like the 4th or 17th where do you risk the carry for the best shot in. Notice these are deeper bunkers too.


That's a more accurate depiction of how I think.

[Rob Marshall]

When we redid our bunkers the architect who posts here said he likes them on the inside of the dogleg not the outside.

Rob,


I prefer my bunkers to ask a question about position. How close can you play to them to gain an advantage on the next shot. That's how I plan them. That's occasionally on the outside like your 2nd and the 7th holes, where the angle is better into the green. But if I'm trying to create a decision, its more often on the inside like the 4th or 17th where do you risk the carry for the best shot in. Notice these are deeper bunkers too.


That's a more accurate depiction of how I think.

Ian
I agree the 2nd is a slight dogleg(very slight) The hole doesn't really play as a dogleg. There is not a big advantage to being near the bunker. The 4th hole is IMO one of the best on the course and both bunkers are to the inside. 7th hole is not really a dogleg, same with 11 but if you were to call them slight doglegs they would be to the inside. 17 really again doesn't have much movement. The bunker is in the right rough but a drive over it hits the speed slot, kicks left and can come pretty close to the green. 18 I think would meet your definition of a dogleg and that bunker is on the inside. The one we are going to be moving per your recommendation on 10 is on the inside of the dogleg.


The majority of ours are to the inside the way I look at the holes. I'm sorry if I didn't remember the conversation correctly. Maybe it was a generalization or comment in passing that I took as your design philosophy .

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