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Mark Pritchett

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #200 on: March 12, 2025, 10:32:08 PM »
Brett,
Your points are well taken but the Ross Society are or at least should be considered the experts on Ross. So when they have something on their site that states what it does it’s hard to disagree with that. If I came on here and said I know more about Ross than the Ross Society and I’d get skewered for it.  You guys should take up your points with them.  The myth is loud and clear on their site!!


I always thought of these architect societies as more of “fan clubs” than “experts”. 

Jeff_Brauer

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #201 on: March 12, 2025, 11:28:36 PM »
*
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #202 on: March 13, 2025, 12:24:39 AM »
Acacia CC (Lyndhurst, OH)


April 6, 1921 Cleveland Plain Dealer -



« Last Edit: March 13, 2025, 07:57:13 AM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #203 on: March 13, 2025, 08:00:42 AM »
Westbrook CC (Mansfield, OH)


Sept. 13, 1917 News Journal -


"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Ben Hollerbach

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #204 on: March 13, 2025, 08:47:51 AM »
While we are at it….. Does any one have the quote about Ross’s opener being a “gentle” handshake? 


I feel like I once read “gentleman’s” handshake, although I could have just imagined that.  Gentle handshake always sounded funny to me?
wasn't the line "Firm Handshake"?

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #205 on: March 13, 2025, 09:25:27 AM »
Elks CC (Worthington, OH)


May 2, 1922 Chillicothe Gazette -


"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #206 on: March 13, 2025, 10:08:33 AM »
Merrimack Valley GC (Methuen)


Jan. 1912 American Golfer -





"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Dan Boerger

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #207 on: March 13, 2025, 10:13:49 AM »
Ben - I, too, recall the "firm handshake" line - which certainly applies to #1 at Aronimink. (At least for us mortal drivers of the golf ball.)
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

MCirba

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #208 on: March 13, 2025, 10:15:01 AM »
What a terrific insight on Ross's design approach in the Elks article!


Thanks for sharing, Sven.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2025, 11:04:08 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Simon Barrington

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #209 on: March 13, 2025, 10:24:17 AM »
Sven - Keep going, this is mighty impressive and diligent research.

I suspect by the time you are done you will have a list including many more visits that previously expected, possibly including multiple return visits too.

This is what George Payne found when researching Ross's fellow Scottish contemporary (albeit separated by an ocean) James Braid.
I have managed to augment that in several instances, myths need busting sometimes, but it is only by increased access to disparate (digital) resources this is now possible.

Braid has over 530 direct design citations (so far) and they were most probably the two busiest architects ever, so to research the entirety is a life's work (if possible at all), so crowd-researching may be the only way to complete the task.

The rephrasing of history and debunking of myths is only possible with factual research, you are certainly doing Ross's deserved reputation a great service.

I am sure the DRS will update their view, as will Brad & others, with the new finds you are sharing so generously.

Cheers
« Last Edit: March 13, 2025, 10:26:52 AM by Simon Barrington »

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #210 on: March 13, 2025, 10:32:04 AM »
Simon:


Thank you for kind words.


Under Vaughn's stewardship, I am sure the Donald Ross Society will endeavor to set the record as clearly as possible.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #211 on: March 13, 2025, 10:38:40 AM »
Probably a good time to note several courses in the DDR listing that have since been attributed to other architects:


CC of Orlando - Bendelow
Palatka - Clark
Panama - Alison
Tupper Lake - Wilkinson
Columbus - The 1914 dates given for Ross relates to work done by Bendelow
Pocono Manor - Barker and later Flynn


If anyone has any updates or corrections to this list, I'd love to hear them.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Kyle Harris

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #212 on: March 13, 2025, 10:44:23 AM »
Probably a good time to note several courses in the DDR listing that have since been attributed to other architects:


CC of Orlando - Bendelow
Palatka - Clark
Panama - Alison
Tupper Lake - Wilkinson
Columbus - The 1914 dates given for Ross relates to work done by Bendelow
Pocono Manor - Barker and later Flynn


If anyone has any updates or corrections to this list, I'd love to hear them.


Bartow is Clark as well.
Pine Crest is Bert Way
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #213 on: March 13, 2025, 11:00:58 AM »
Probably a good time to note several courses in the DDR listing that have since been attributed to other architects:


CC of Orlando - Bendelow
Palatka - Clark
Panama - Alison
Tupper Lake - Wilkinson
Columbus - The 1914 dates given for Ross relates to work done by Bendelow
Pocono Manor - Barker and later Flynn


If anyone has any updates or corrections to this list, I'd love to hear them.


Bartow is Clark as well.
Pine Crest is Bert Way


Kyle:


Bartow wasn't on the DDR list.  Somehow DDR has Ross confirmed on site for Pinecrest.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Kyle Harris

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #214 on: March 13, 2025, 11:05:41 AM »
Probably a good time to note several courses in the DDR listing that have since been attributed to other architects:


CC of Orlando - Bendelow
Palatka - Clark
Panama - Alison
Tupper Lake - Wilkinson
Columbus - The 1914 dates given for Ross relates to work done by Bendelow
Pocono Manor - Barker and later Flynn


If anyone has any updates or corrections to this list, I'd love to hear them.


Bartow is Clark as well.
Pine Crest is Bert Way


Kyle:


Bartow wasn't on the DDR list.  Somehow DDR has Ross confirmed on site for Pinecrest.


Sven


I would love to see what they have for that. And if so what, exactly, Ross did.


Numerous accounts credit Bert Way. Never a mention of Ross anywhere.


Pinecrest says Ross was on site but have nothing to prove that.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #215 on: March 14, 2025, 09:02:45 AM »
The DDR and DRS lists both note the Mark Bostick GC at the University of Florida as a 1921 Remodel (and is not confirmed on site course in the DDR list).  This course started its existence as Gainesville CC.


I can find no information linking Ross to Gainesville CC.  What I have found suggests the course was new in 1921, and was built by other parties.


July 28, 1921 Miami Herald -





Dec. 23, 1921 Miami News -






"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

zachary_car

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #216 on: March 14, 2025, 02:10:27 PM »
Sven,


Do you have anything in your archives regarding these 4 Ross Firm designs in eastern Canada: Brightwood, White Point Beach, Riverside, and Westfield? As far as I know, and as far as the club believes, he never visited Brightwood (Hatch handled the commission.) As for the other three, I believe that he was on site, at least at some point.

Mark Mammel

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #217 on: March 14, 2025, 08:57:13 PM »
Re Sven's list of courses on the DRS website no longer attributed to Ross add White Bear Yacht Club, a William Watson design.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

Sven Nilsen

Re: Donald Ross
« Reply #218 on: March 14, 2025, 11:56:24 PM »
Re Sven's list of courses on the DRS website no longer attributed to Ross add White Bear Yacht Club, a William Watson design.


It should be noted the DRS has this right for the remodel done by Ross, they just have the date wrong for when he was there.

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

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