News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Simon Barrington

TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« on: March 11, 2025, 10:21:53 AM »
Thought provoking return of the original Pete Dye intent...

PGA Tour's Youtube Channel has a great little video on the process and reasoning w. Davis Love III:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEf_2y48om0
« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 12:45:08 PM by Simon Barrington »

Matt_Cohn

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2025, 11:53:42 AM »
That link didn't work (maybe just for me?) but here's an article. The picture makes it look like you need to hit it super low?


https://sports.yahoo.com/pga-tour-iconic-oak-tree-100835351.html

Simon Barrington

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2025, 12:44:06 PM »
That link didn't work (maybe just for me?) but here's an article. The picture makes it look like you need to hit it super low?

https://sports.yahoo.com/pga-tour-iconic-oak-tree-100835351.html
Fixed link above, Thanks

Kalen Braley

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2025, 01:07:03 PM »
Another link with a video to the changes, plus discussion on the changes to 14...

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/latest/2025/03/10/famous-overhanging-tree-replanted-sixth-hole-pete-dye-tpc-sawgrass-the-players-championship-renovation

P.S.  Some of those pics make the tee shot look almost impossible now

Simon Barrington

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2025, 01:15:01 PM »
Another link with a video to the changes, plus discussion on the changes to 14...

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/latest/2025/03/10/famous-overhanging-tree-replanted-sixth-hole-pete-dye-tpc-sawgrass-the-players-championship-renovation

P.S.  Some of those pics make the tee shot look almost impossible now
That's the interesting bit, Dye intended to force (or get into the players head at least, that they ought to use) a lower flighted shot.


"Almost impossible" for modern drivers are not designed that way, so the feature essentially is a "rollback" of the drive...3D design and ahead of his time
« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 01:58:08 PM by Simon Barrington »

Rob Marshall

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2025, 08:41:15 PM »
Looks like a gimmick to me.


I used to have dreams when I played in a lot of tournaments of getting to the tee and I couldn't find a place to tee it up because a tree branch was in my backswing no matter where I went........
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Kalen Braley

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2025, 08:52:10 PM »
Looks like a gimmick to me.


I used to have dreams when I played in a lot of tournaments of getting to the tee and I couldn't find a place to tee it up because a tree branch was in my backswing no matter where I went........


Especially given Davis Love was one of the loudest critics of it back in the day and repeatedly asked for its removal...and then eventually advocated for its replacement, and did the work.  :-\

Matt Schoolfield

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2025, 08:56:11 PM »
Gimmick or not, what? Some on this forum sure seem to care about architectural integrity and intent until we find a feature we don't like, and then it's all "bah humbug."

The tree was obviously left there on purpose, the course is meant to be challenging, and this feature seems like an extremely interesting challenge. Good on them for restoring some of Dye's intent.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 08:58:58 PM by Matt Schoolfield »

Rob Marshall

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2025, 09:14:20 PM »
Gimmick or not, what? Some on this forum sure seem to care about architectural integrity and intent until we find a feature we don't like, and then it's all "bah humbug."

The tree was obviously left there on purpose, the course is meant to be challenging, and this feature seems like an extremely interesting challenge. Good on them for restoring some of Dye's intent.




Looks like you are teeing off through a clowns mouth. I’m sure Tom knows what Mr Dye was thinking.


The original tree is in the video. It doesn’t look as obtrusive as the new tree to me.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 09:17:20 PM by Rob Marshall »
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Michael Felton

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2025, 09:03:25 AM »
Looks like a gimmick to me.


I used to have dreams when I played in a lot of tournaments of getting to the tee and I couldn't find a place to tee it up because a tree branch was in my backswing no matter where I went........


Especially given Davis Love was one of the loudest critics of it back in the day and repeatedly asked for its removal...and then eventually advocated for its replacement, and did the work.  :-\


The key difference between those two being whether he was playing in the tournament or not

mike_malone

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2025, 09:26:43 AM »
If it’s original it’s fine. The tee placement then becomes the question.
AKA Mayday

Kalen Braley

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2025, 10:25:03 AM »
If it’s original it’s fine. The tee placement then becomes the question.

Well that's just it, the current tee is a newer tee that is further back which brings the tree much more into play.

And its possible the tee that was in use in 1980 when it first opened, was likely further up under the tree and not nearly as intrusive as now, which would make Pete's original intent far less contrived....

Ira Fishman

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2025, 11:57:47 AM »
Looks like a gimmick to me.


I used to have dreams when I played in a lot of tournaments of getting to the tee and I couldn't find a place to tee it up because a tree branch was in my backswing no matter where I went........


That often actually happens to me on my second shot.

David Kelly

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2025, 06:18:59 PM »
Looks like a gimmick to me.


I used to have dreams when I played in a lot of tournaments of getting to the tee and I couldn't find a place to tee it up because a tree branch was in my backswing no matter where I went........
I often have the exact same dream. I have another where I have to tee off through a window or opening in a building, and chairs and desks get in the way.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

mike_malone

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2025, 11:32:32 PM »
If it’s original it’s fine. The tee placement then becomes the question.

Well that's just it, the current tee is a newer tee that is further back which brings the tree much more into play.

And its possible the tee that was in use in 1980 when it first opened, was likely further up under the tree and not nearly as intrusive as now, which would make Pete's original intent far less contrived....


Always need to look at both.
AKA Mayday

Ian Andrew

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2025, 09:18:33 AM »
Like it or not ....

How they did it was pretty amazing.


Around 40 years ago (holy crap) I saw a presentation by the architect who designed Williams Square Plaza in Las Colinas, Texas. The Mustang Sculpture Park. They moved those live Oaks in to create the setting. When you see anything like that done, from start to finish, its remarkable what's possible.
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Tim Gavrich

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2025, 09:56:49 AM »
Gimmick or not, what? Some on this forum sure seem to care about architectural integrity and intent until we find a feature we don't like, and then it's all "bah humbug."

The tree was obviously left there on purpose, the course is meant to be challenging, and this feature seems like an extremely interesting challenge. Good on them for restoring some of Dye's intent.

Looks like you are teeing off through a clowns mouth. I’m sure Tom knows what Mr Dye was thinking.


The original tree is in the video. It doesn’t look as obtrusive as the new tree to me.
Given it's only really part of the tee shot from the back tee(s?), only players who are less likely to be spooked by it have to deal with it.


Given that most golfers tend to play from too long a set of tees (this is even more a problem at Sawgrass than other places given golfers' desire to "see it from where the pros play"), features like the overhanging tree function as a clear suggestion as to which tees to play.


One side note: the hole crossed the 400 yard mark for the first time this year, lengthened to 413 yards from its previous yardage of 393.


At 7,352 yards, TPC Sawgrass is now more than 500 yards longer than it was when it opened (6,851).
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Marty Bonnar

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2025, 11:14:36 AM »
That is one mahoosive rootball.
Is it just me, or is there - currently - more, eh, ‘tree’ than there used to be? With a bit of judicious pruning it could be made to replicate the old situation a bit closer. Even just removing the lower limb of the overhanging branch might take off enough weight to allow the branch to spring up a bit, recreating the shape of the old space a bit better. Hard to tell as I’ve never been there to know the actual situation so all a bit theoretical from me!
 ;D
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Simon Barrington

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2025, 12:31:16 PM »
Some Player feedback, short c. 2 min PGA Tour Video (not yet on their Youtube Channel) from Practice Round, interesting comments (some surprisingly positive):

https://x.com/PGATOUR/status/1900211643990077902

James Brown

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2025, 12:52:19 PM »
Ordinarily, I am pro-quirk, but I hate [size=78%] trees like this on golf courses, especially on courses that most will only play once or rarely.  Played it once with and once without the tree.  This course has plenty of character and this seems gimmicky to me.  [/size]




Kalen Braley

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2025, 01:00:27 PM »

Hard to get a precise then and now...but the latter pic appears to have a significantly less amount of space to hit thru.

Then..


Now...
« Last Edit: March 13, 2025, 01:03:20 PM by Kalen Braley »

Brett Hochstein

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2025, 01:19:37 PM »
The key to it all is something they said in the video--Mr. Dye (paraphrasing) didn't actually want it to be in the way but feel like it's in the way. It reminds me a bit of when you are on an old wooden roller coaster with your hands up, and you go underneath another part of the track structure and instinctively retract your hands and duck a little, even though it's physically impossible to actually touch those parts above you.


The whole tree thing goes along with many of the course's themes of providing mental discomfort, especially visually.  I like that as an idea, especially for top level players. I'll reserve any final judgment on the execution though until seeing how it plays out (or seeing it in person). Pretty amazing process to see though, and I'm glad they documented and shared it. Kept waiting for them to reveal the price tag--anyone have any idea on that?
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Jason Topp

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2025, 05:51:04 PM »
I thought the old version was pretty fun.   It definitely gets in your head. 

Matt_Cohn

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2025, 08:32:20 PM »
If you're trying challenge players from the back tees without affecting players on the forward tees, this is pretty brilliant, right?

Rob Marshall

Re: TPC Sawgrass - The Tree on the 6th returns...
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2025, 08:38:53 PM »

Why not just put up a plywood clowns mouth? What great golf course has a tree like that? The original didn't look too bad. It looked like the tree was closed to dead.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Tags: