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Mark_Fine

Re: What Does “Restoring” a Golf Course Mean These Days?
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2025, 06:12:56 PM »
Well written post Brett  :)


The only problem I had the last time I played Pasa was green speed. I don’t know what they are keeping the greens at these days but many of the hole locations were just insane. I don’t care what kind of player you were.  It got silly. Mackenzie never envisioned that. 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2025, 06:20:31 PM by Mark_Fine »

Brett Hochstein

Re: What Does “Restoring” a Golf Course Mean These Days?
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2025, 07:48:55 PM »
Well written post Brett  :)


The only problem I had the last time I played Pasa was green speed. I don’t know what they are keeping the greens at these days but many of the hole locations were just insane. I don’t care what kind of player you were.  It got silly. Mackenzie never envisioned that.


Thanks, Mark. No one back then could've imagined anything 10+ with any sort of consistency. I imagine there were localized incidents and unusual conditions though where there were such though, especially on the links.


The thing about Pasatiempo is not so much them pushing speeds but the raising minimum "floor" of speeds across golf in combination with just how steep on aggregate those complexes there are (some over 10 feet elevation change from back to front). 11 on the stimp there is borderline and where they would get really nuts, as you'd see with some of the prior Westerns. 10 is kind of a sweet spot where they have maximum teeth within reason. The problem with the Poa greens before, as explained by Justin Mandon (Justin please correct me if I'm speaking out of my a** here), is that getting them settled at that sweet spot of 10 was very difficult. They either wanted to be 11+ or 9 or less. With the bent and USGA profile, that should be way easier to control.


The speeds are very manageable at the moment and fun to play, especially with the firmness of the new profiles.  I'd make the effort to check it out if you find yourself on the West Coast. 
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Mark_Fine

Re: What Does “Restoring” a Golf Course Mean These Days? New
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2025, 08:50:23 PM »
Brett,
I will definitely play it again (have done so a half a dozen times as I get out that way often).  Obviously the architect has little control over the green speeds but 9-10 as you say is about as fast as I would ever roll them or they do get silly and many (most) hole locations would be goofy to try to use unless maybe playing in a scramble.  The last time I played there, two of my playing partners (who I didn’t know and joined me on the first tee) complained the whole time as they got tired of four and five putting and then giving up hope.  I honestly didn’t blame them.  It was not fun. Nothing to do with fairness by the way, just silly. 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:28:18 AM by Mark_Fine »

Simon Barrington

Re: What Does “Restoring” a Golf Course Mean These Days?
« Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 02:05:03 AM »
This could become known as the "Sitwell Limit" i.e. the point at which where the novelty wears off.

In this co-incident thread I suggest 10 should not just be the tipping point of contour, as do you & Brett here implicitly, but IMHO the limit.

Re: Ideal Green Speed?

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