GolfClubAtlas.com > Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group
Consensus in Rankings
Adam Lawrence:
--- Quote from: MCirba on February 19, 2025, 07:28:50 AM ---With all respect to my friend Paul Jones, any course where I can stand on the 8th tee at +1, having missed a 4-foot birdie putt on #6, is not too tough. ;)
The wind picked up and I managed to finish par, par, bogey, for an 80 that left me joyful. I had only one 3-putt and one of the best ball-striking rounds of my life but there isn't a hole out there I'd say is unfair or even drastic although a few like #3 are audacious which I loved.
I did mention a few courses on the other thread that I think are way overrated (Muirfield Village perhaps the poster child) and a few underrated so hopefully now that I've balanced out Paul's blasphemy ;D we can move on to losing access at some other courses.
--- End quote ---
Not to pick on you Mike, but the interesting part of Paul's post is not the question of whether or not Oakmont is too difficult, which depends entirely on the individual golfer, the tees he chooses, the condition of the course and of his game on the day, which side he got out of bed, etc, etc, but his comment that it doesn't have strategy because it is so heavily bunkered.
I haven't seen Oakmont except on telly, so I have no dog in the fight, but it appears to me there are a number of possibilities.
1. Paul is wrong and Oakmont does have strategy, in which case I would be interested to hear from those who love it in what ways iit is manifested.
2. Paul is right, and Oakmont is purely penal, with no strategy, and this makes it less of a golf course than it is commonly ranked.
3. Paul is half right and Oakmont is purely penal, but this doesn't matter because its terrain, greens, routing etc, are good enough still to make it a great golf course, albeit an outlier given the prevailing belief that strategy is what makes courses great.
4. We should all deregister from gca.com and go eat donuts.
Adam
Mark Pearce:
In the spirit of the thread, I'll give you one of each:
Kingsbarns - it's OK but there's a load of eye candy and not much strategy and it has clearly been designed to flatter visiting golfers. I played OK but not particularly well and was one over at the turn. I'm sure that makes some people very happy but it's not what I want from a golf course. In terms of golfing bang for bucks, I think I actually prefer Gil Hanse's Craighead course at Crail, just down the road, which a visitor can play three and a bit times for the price of a Kingsbarns green fee.
Craigielaw - I've been called out on this on a WhatsApp by Whitty, but the consensus seems to be that this is a faux links abomination. I've played it several times and have always enjoyed it. It may not be great. It may not be a genuine links. It's a reasonably enjoyable place to play.
Jim_Coleman:
I wonder if anyone has offered for golf the service Real Clear Politics offers - they don’t do any polling; they “poll the polls” and produce the definitive and often cited poll average.
I guess there aren’t nearly the number of golf course rankings as there are political polls. But a quality algorithm and AI might make it doable and interesting..
Ben Sims:
I do not personally align with the consensus on Pine Valley. I only played it once. But I remember then and I still think now that it’s clearly *in* the pack and not ahead of it. I can name ten courses that sit alongside of it and perhaps another 5 or so that I think are clearly better courses. The idea that it has no peer never really clicked with me. At the time I felt like its tee shots were disproportionately penal vs the greatness of the greens. The speed of the greens felt excessive for existing slope. The routing wasn’t as elegant as I’d been led to believe. None of that qualifies as something bad. It’s just another course that’s one of the best that has a flaw or three.
On the reverse side, I don’t understand how Bandon Trails AND Old Macdonald are so universally underrated. At any other resort either could be the star attraction. I think I personally would rate both just a bare smidgen below Pac Dunes. Which easily puts them among the best 12-15 or so courses I’ve ever seen. To me they are clearly 9’s with a punchers chance at being a 10.
Joe Zucker:
Two Doak courses always come to my mind on this topic. On the high end, I always find Pac Dunes to be "overrated". I think it's a tough course and I just have more fun on Bandon Dunes, Trails, Old Mac. On the other side, St. Andrew's Beach is phenomenal. I honestly don't see a ton of daylight between the highly ranked Doak courses (Pac Dunes and Ballyneal) and St. Andrews Beach. It has the rugged and natural feel of Ballyneal, as well as a plethora of great holes and shots.
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