Best avoided

[Thomas Dai]

Herein there are frequently comments about places to go.


Where are some places that are best avoided?


Many possible reasons … can be resort, pay-n-play, visitor at private club ……
… facilities
… condition
… patron actions/behavior/vibe
… location
… other


Atb

[Andrew Harvie]

Pebble Beach after noon. It is obviously worth playing, but teeing off after noon is a recipe for the longest round of your life

[Ira Fishman]

Interesting question. When my friends who are traveling to Scotland for the first time ask me where to play, I suggest to avoid Castle Stuart and Kingsbarns (slow play, vibe, value for cost), but they always ignore me. In the US, the only two places that we have been fairly recently that I would avoid are PH4 and 8 (value for money, slow play especially on PH4). My wife would add Streamsong because of the vibe despite the quality of Blue and Red.


Ira

[Frank Sekulic]

The one place that comes to mind for me is Torrey Pines South, it is a nice course in a great setting that is not worth the price, couple that with the 5-6 hours it takes to play and it would have to rank high on any list of places to be avoided.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Pebble Beach after noon. It is obviously worth playing, but teeing off after noon is a recipe for the longest round of your life

I’m absolutely sure you are right… but leave your clubs in the car and head out for a walk 3 hours after the last tee time with only 2 hours left of sunlight and it is pretty heavenly. Or so Robin Hiseman and I found in September.

[Kalen Braley]

Pebble Beach after noon. It is obviously worth playing, but teeing off after noon is a recipe for the longest round of your life

I would give this advice for any popular muni (afternoon weekend rounds) in any populated area around the country.  By far and away my slowest rounds were always due to disregarding this rule...

P.S.  I haven't run into any of the reasons Thomas listed in his original OP, although I can certainly think of a few based on value...  aka what you pay vs what you get.

[Pierre_C]

Bethpage Black after 1:00 pm, any day of week. It will be a long round and walk in the dark.

Any municipal course in NYC on weekends in the summer. Expect at least 5 1/2 hour round, avoiding random golf balls, and a lot of waiting. However, you meet a lot of interesting people.

[PThomas]

Glen Club near O'hare airport....peak rate last year with cart was $250!


Go play Ravisloe for less than half the price

[Dan_Callahan]

Caledonia and True Blue in mid-March. The spring break crowd and buckets of beer make for 6-hour rounds.

[Mark Pearce]

The International, under the flight path of planes landing at Schipol, just by the motorway.  Lovely cart paths, though.

[Simon Barrington]

The Pointe at Lookout Mountain AZ - To quote my old boss, the late Sandy Jones (CEO PGA) "A waste of a good desert"

Marbella Golf & Country Club, Marbella, Spain - Brutally tight RTJ course on overly steep land. Another PGA colleague, the late Les Massey, was asked who had helped in the design (this was during the Gulf War for context) he suggested the design associate was "Saddam Hussein, as it's just torture"

[Joe_Tucholski]

Pebble Beach after noon. It is obviously worth playing, but teeing off after noon is a recipe for the longest round of your life

Unique situation but senior year in high school I'd play Pebble once a month.  Would start about an hour or so after the last tee time.  Worked out pretty well as we'd catch the group in front around 15/16 and play 18 at sunset (occasionally in the dark).  Some of my favorite memories on a golf course.


Understand if paying rack rate most people wouldn't be willing to do this.

[Rob Marshall]

Pebble Beach after noon. It is obviously worth playing, but teeing off after noon is a recipe for the longest round of your life

I didn't play in the afternoon at Pebble but I did wish when it was over that it had taken longer.....

[Ben Malach]

Any golf course in Canada built after WW2 not by Thompson or Rod Whitman. (like any rule there are exceptions, but broadly this is true.)

[Steve Lapper]

As much as I genuinely like the course, Galloway National on a July/August afternoon when the Greenhead flies are out and a'bitin!

[Brian Finn]

Any golf course in Canada built after WW2 not by Thompson or Rod Whitman. (like any rule there are exceptions, but broadly this is true.)

Looking at the 2024 Score Golf Top 100 in Canada, 26 out of the top 50 courses (and 52 out of the top 100) were built after WWII by someone other than Thompson or Whitman.  Is Score Golf a bad list to use as a starting point when targeting courses to play in Canada?

[MCirba]

As much as I genuinely like the course, Galloway National on a July/August afternoon when the Greened flies are out and a'bitin!

Steve,


If beer is proof of a loving God, greenhead flies introduce doubt.

[Joe Bausch]

As much as I genuinely like the course, Galloway National on a July/August afternoon when the Greened flies are out and a'bitin!

Steve,


If beer is proof of a loving God, greenhead flies introduce doubt.

What does the CC of the Poconos introduce?

[Steve Lapper]

As much as I genuinely like the course, Galloway National on a July/August afternoon when the Greened flies are out and a'bitin!

Steve,


If beer is proof of a loving God, greenhead flies introduce doubt.

Mike,


  Hahaha! So damn true. I imagine the members are part-time atheists!


  Congrats to you, Joe and Mayday on your Eagles victory. It was sheer domination and now that Lurie has built a true championship organization, even I can take joy in an Eagle rout! Naturally though, the football gods have punished me for having made my only bet a wager that Saquon would have a TD! C’est la vie!

[Ben Malach]

Any golf course in Canada built after WW2 not by Thompson or Rod Whitman. (like any rule there are exceptions, but broadly this is true.)

Looking at the 2024 Score Golf Top 100 in Canada, 26 out of the top 50 courses (and 52 out of the top 100) were built after WWII by someone other than Thompson or Whitman.  Is Score Golf a bad list to use as a starting point when targeting courses to play in Canada?

Both the ranking and golf isn't great. If you want to see a more accurate ranking the old beyond the contour rankings were very good.


World Top 100 isn't bad either. I avoid the marketing write off that is Score these day for everything except the occasional Lorne Rubenstein article.

[Alex_Hunter]

Any golf course in Canada built after WW2 not by Thompson or Rod Whitman. (like any rule there are exceptions, but broadly this is true.)

Looking at the 2024 Score Golf Top 100 in Canada, 26 out of the top 50 courses (and 52 out of the top 100) were built after WWII by someone other than Thompson or Whitman.  Is Score Golf a bad list to use as a starting point when targeting courses to play in Canada?

Brian, as much as I like Ben he's a pessimist on Canadian golf. And perhaps for good reason.
I love my country and I think there is plenty of value and great courses from coast to coast. Perhaps not at the same level as America or the UK but those are clearly exceptions on a global scale.


Canada is massive so logically speaking you can't really play them all in a week. But there are plenty of pockets.
Feel free to DM me if you have any questions. Of course I am not the authority on golf in the country but I am happy to help.


Beyond the Contour used to be a good resource, but the Top 100 lists didn't make their way to GCA on transition. I can share with you if you'd like.
Top 100 Golf Courses is a fairly good list and the depth lists provincially are decent as well. No perfect but good enough to do some basic research on.

[Brian Finn]

Any golf course in Canada built after WW2 not by Thompson or Rod Whitman. (like any rule there are exceptions, but broadly this is true.)

Looking at the 2024 Score Golf Top 100 in Canada, 26 out of the top 50 courses (and 52 out of the top 100) were built after WWII by someone other than Thompson or Whitman.  Is Score Golf a bad list to use as a starting point when targeting courses to play in Canada?

Brian, as much as I like Ben he's a pessimist on Canadian golf. And perhaps for good reason.
I love my country and I think there is plenty of value and great courses from coast to coast. Perhaps not at the same level as America or the UK but those are clearly exceptions on a global scale.

Canada is massive so logically speaking you can't really play them all in a week. But there are plenty of pockets.
Feel free to DM me if you have any questions. Of course I am not the authority on golf in the country but I am happy to help.

Beyond the Contour used to be a good resource, but the Top 100 lists didn't make their way to GCA on transition. I can share with you if you'd like.
Top 100 Golf Courses is a fairly good list and the depth lists provincially are decent as well. No perfect but good enough to do some basic research on.

That is useful context.  I think I understand where Ben is coming from, but also wonder how any major publication list could be so "off" that ~half of a top 100 is to be avoided.  Having said that, there is a publication in my current state (NC) that has comically bad top 100 in state, so I know such things do exist. 


Anyway, I definitely do want to learn more about Canadian golf courses, and hope to do a trip or two soon.  I suppose this would be best as another topic, but I'd love to know of a trip or two where you could stay in one location for a week or so and play a bunch of good courses (not necessarily just top 100 list stuff) - those "pockets" you mention.  That is how I have been visiting the UK and each trip has been better than the next.  Of course, as you say, Canada is enormous, so it will take several visits. 


Thanks!

[Alex_Hunter]

Re: Canada Top 100/pockets of golf - Its probably best for a new topic. Canada certainly isn't to be avoided, please come and enjoy our friendly nature and beautiful country. Plenty of great golf to be had. Perhaps I or one of the other Canadians here can start. If not done in a week or so I'll start a topic with some key discussion points.


I wouldn't say that there is 50% of a list that should be ignored. It's just that context matters and when compared to our neighbours to the south Canada just isn't deep outside the ~top 40 or so courses. So if you aren't a Canadian and only come a handful of times your depth to a specific area is relatively small but doable in one week (or less) trips for sure.

[Ben Malach]

Agree, with you 100% on there maybe 40 course of note with them all being located in 4-5 locations.




But, wouldn't you also agree that a majority of the 40 were built before WW2. With the scatting of extra's the only really rel?vant architects to advance the game after were Thompson and Whitman. With few exceptions and side notes for places like The Derrick Club and Laval Blue. Canadian golf has been intellectual stagnant.

[Rick Sides]

TPC Scottsdale is an average course especially without stands where you might pay 500 bucks

[Tags:]

Tags: