Unsolved Mysteries III

[zachary_car]

Jumping off of what's been claimed in some recent threads, specifically in regards to the supposed lessening of original research and its associated discussion/debate on this board, I figured that it might be interesting to complete the trilogy of these two 2008 vintage threads: Unsolved Mysteries and Unsolved Mysteries 2


Personally, I've always found the historical deep dives to be the most interesting topics to follow here, so I'll ask the same question that Tom Macwood did seventeen years ago, "what are some of the remaining unsolved mysteries in the history of golf course architecture?"


I can think of two specifically Canadian examples off of the top of my head. The first being Colt's  - and/or Alison's - involvement at Murray Bay, Quebec, as per their company's advert. The second is Alison's Forest Hills project in Montreal (did it ever in fact progress beyond the planning stage). I assume, in regards to these unknowns, that Adam Lawrence may not want to spoil the details of his upcoming book.


And a third may be uncovering the identity of the Scottish architect who collaborated with Stanley Thompson at St Andrew's Club, which hosted the 36 and 37 Canadian Opens (it's not Herbert Strong, certainly, as someone suggested here a few years ago).


What are some of the other mysteries that are left to solve?

[Alex_Hunter]

I am not sure if I would contend that these are true unsolved mysteries, but I am perplexed by the history of Waskesiu Golf Club and Waterton Lakes. I'd love to find more information on both to put a seal on the history of these two great golf courses.


Stanley Thompson Society and Dr. Jamie Harris swears that Waskesiu is pure Thompson. Based on the evidence presented, the writings of Donald Childs and what I read with my own eyes in the archives I am unconvinced he deserves all the credit. Maybe Ian Andrew can comment if he has any information hidden away in his own archives which aren't available online or at the University of Guelph.


The other is Waterton Lakes. I did a lot of research for the course profile I wrote - perhaps that will be here soon. I am convinced Stanley had little involvement beyond a report or two after the 18 was built and had numerous changes in its first two or so decades of existence.

[Phil Young]

Here's one that has bothered me for a number of years: On September 23rd, 1919, the Kingsport (Tennessee) Times reported, "A. W. Tillinghast, designer of Kingsport Country Club golf links, and Maurice McCarthy, who built the course, arrived here yesterday to superintend the sowing of the ground in grass.
      "Mr. Tillinghast, who is on his way to Pasadena, Cal., for which city he designed a golf course, will remain here only until tomorrow, while Mr. McCarthy will stay until probably late in December."
      Numerous questions arise from this simple report. To which Pasadena course was he referring? As it had been designed according to the article, was it under construction? Was it completed? Is it still in existence? If not, what happened to it and when?
      To this day I can't find even a single other reference to this golf course. What makes the claim that Tilly did design a course in pasadena during this time frame (1917-1918) is that he and his wife Lillian travelled to SoCal every year to visit his wife's sister and her husband who lived in Pasadena.
      I'd love to get an answer to this mystery...



     

[Andrew Harvie]

There are a lot of candidates for who helped Stanley Thompson at St. Andrews in Toronto given how busy/happening of a place Toronto was at the time!


The one that's irked me for a while is Kanawaki in Montreal. There's a 1923 magazine clipping based on the Canadian Amateur that year that states it's a Harry Colt golf course. On one hand, Colt was in Montreal in 1913 and the golf course opened in 1914. On the other hand, when Colt was there, the golf course was said to be mostly under construction. Not only that, but it was advertised in a Carter Seeds ad in The Canadian Golfer alongside Country Club of Detroit, Toronto, Old Elm -- all Colt designs, as well as Mayfield in Cleveland (a similar situation to Kanawaki), and I think two Donald Ross golf courses. Weird coincidence. Did Colt design the golf course, or did he stop in and give a very young Albert Murray advice (enough for a co-design credit?)? The club largely ignores Donald Ross' renovation in the early 1920s as well, to add another element.


Royal Ottawa is another one I'd love to know the lineage on, but the clubhouse fire in the 1930s means that'll likely never happen.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Personally, I've always found the historical deep dives to be the most interesting topics to follow here, so I'll ask the same question that Tom Macwood did seventeen years ago, "what are some of the remaining unsolved mysteries in the history of golf course architecture?"

One I have is around the original architect for Candler Park in Atlanta.

As the story goes, the 55 acres of parkland was donated to the city by Coca-Cola founder Asa Candler in 1922. Designated to be used as a public park, Candlers donation was also to include a nine hole golf course. Member at nearby Druid Hills, Candler's daughter was prohibited from playing the course and he wanted a place in town for her to play. Landscape architect Helen Smith was hired to design the course, which was open for play in 1927.

Was Helen Smith actually the architect of the course? If so would this have been the first course in the US designed by a woman?

[Phil Young]

Ben, according to an article in the Atlanta Journal dated, July 3rd, 1927, "Stuart Maiden, professional at East Lake Country Club, and L.L. Wallis, Manager of Parks, laid out the course after a plan suggested by Donald Ross, internationally known golf course architect."
      There are a number of articles from the previous year that detail Ross' visit to the site in which it mentioned that he drew out a plan for the golf course on the ground and that he would provide actual drawings when he was provided topographical maps of the site to work with. He also suggested that some acreage next to the park thatw as available for sale should be purchased and used in the building of the golf course.
      Send me your email address and I'll send you the articles.

[Adam Lawrence]

The one that's irked me for a while is Kanawaki in Montreal. There's a 1923 magazine clipping based on the Canadian Amateur that year that states it's a Harry Colt golf course. On one hand, Colt was in Montreal in 1913 and the golf course opened in 1914. On the other hand, when Colt was there, the golf course was said to be mostly under construction. Not only that, but it was advertised in a Carter Seeds ad in The Canadian Golfer alongside Country Club of Detroit, Toronto, Old Elm -- all Colt designs, as well as Mayfield in Cleveland (a similar situation to Kanawaki), and I think two Donald Ross golf courses. Weird coincidence. Did Colt design the golf course, or did he stop in and give a very young Albert Murray advice (enough for a co-design credit?)? The club largely ignores Donald Ross' renovation in the early 1920s as well, to add another element.

My suspicion — though I can’t prove it — is that Colt bunkered the course on his 1913 trip.

[Ronald Montesano]

Two words: Mossey Springs

Seth Raynor course in Buffalo. It might be Brookfield. It might be Brookfield's lost 18 across Shimmerville Road. I don't believe that it is either.


Story on BuffaloGolfer.Com

Thread on GCA

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