New greens at Pebble Beach

[Hal Hicks]

Watching the AT and T tournament this afternoon on ESPN plus.  Commentators noted that Pebble Beach was gradually changing all the green sizes and contours.  Watching Rory play the 13th hole, I noticed from playing there the 13th green was totally different.
The right side of the green was not only enlarged but had a fairly flat plateau where it used to be a slope all the way to the middle of the green.  I know Pebble Beach is a resort and green speeds are increasing but doesn't these changes make the course much easier for championship play? This seems to be a trend on all the renovations going on at championship courses throughout the United States.  Your thoughts!

[Rich M]

Watching the AT and T tournament this afternoon on ESPN plus.  Commentators noted that Pebble Beach was gradually changing all the green sizes and contours.  Watching Rory play the 13th hole, I noticed from playing there the 13th green was totally different.
The right side of the green was not only enlarged but had a fairly flat plateau where it used to be a slope all the way to the middle of the green.  I know Pebble Beach is a resort and green speeds are increasing but doesn't these changes make the course much easier for championship play? This seems to be a trend on all the renovations going on at championship courses throughout the United States.  Your thoughts!

I believe the main issue lies with green committees requesting glasslike surfaces and greens rolling at 12'+ on a regular basis. Old golden age green contours lose pinable locations and greens suffer excessive wear around the few remaining pins. I've seen Champion Bermuda greens roll at 15', and they were basically unplayable on certain greens. Realistically if the standard went back to everyday play at 10' and tournament play at 12' or 13', the old pin locations might be usable in tournaments and the character of the architecture can remain.

[Matthew Rose]

I know 8 and 14 have been rebuilt in recent years.

On my only visit to PB, #14 had just re-opened.

[Mark Kiely]

With seven U S. Opens (four men's, three women's) in the next 23 years at Pebble, is it safe to assume the USGA has a significant say in any changes, if not dictating them outright?

[Chris Hughes]

With seven U S. Opens (four men's, three women's) in the next 23 years at Pebble, is it safe to assume the USGA has a significant say in any changes, if not dictating them outright?

Don't know about "dictating them outright" but having a "significant say" would be a minimum condition for the USGA to commit to that many events over such a lengthy period of time.


Anyone ever wonder why Bethpage and "the USGA" are never mentioned in the same sentence any more?

[Tom_Doak]

I’m not sure Pebble Beach even has a normal greens committee, since it is owned by a bunch of masters of the universe.  I think it’s probably a board of directors making the call.


Back in the day they would have listened to their friend Arnie - maybe not the best choice - but nowadays I have no idea.


What Hal is right about is that some of these iconic places have lost any respect for the architecture of their courses.  It’s all about coping with the “reality” of ever faster greens.  If the consulting architect doesn’t bring a strong resistance to blowing up greens, they’re done for.

[Pete Lavallee]

I first played PB in 1983 when I told the wife “ honey if we don’t play PB soon it will cost more than $100!” We paid $75 and I thought their greens were the most difficult to read of any course I had ever played before.  Not so much overall slope but micro undulations within the green itself. Everyone is aware that the PB Corp. has been rebuilding their greens to USGA Specs. Completing one or two per year. We made a post COVID roadtrip in Oct. of 2020 and I found their new greens to be easy to read and not difficult to putt. Heck I made over 100’ of putts the first day. Certainly more consistent slope even for their small size.   

[Kalen Braley]

I know 8 and 14 have been rebuilt in recent years.

On my only visit to PB, #14 had just re-opened.

In watching play extensively this week, these were the two holes I noticed the most.

Given how severe both of those greens used to be, combined with how long they are hitting it for hole 14, it would seem they've both lost some of their teeth.  I recall not long ago when par on 14 was at least a respectable score and now these guys are likely disappointed with worse than 4.

[Joel_Stewart]

I know 8 and 14 have been rebuilt in recent years.

On my only visit to PB, #14 had just re-opened.

2, 11 and 17 have been reworked over the years. Palmer tried to install subair on 2 in order to keep the poa out and that experiment failed.


As far as I can tell, the executives at Pebble Beach like to say they are modifying the greens for more pin placements but its code that they are taking out the undulations and slopes to speed up play.   

[Rich M]

I know 8 and 14 have been rebuilt in recent years.

On my only visit to PB, #14 had just re-opened.

2, 11 and 17 have been reworked over the years. Palmer tried to install subair on 2 in order to keep the poa out and that experiment failed.

Did they use Endothal or something similar for poa management on 2?

[Matt_Cohn]

I know 8 and 14 have been rebuilt in recent years.

On my only visit to PB, #14 had just re-opened.

2, 11 and 17 have been reworked over the years. Palmer tried to install subair on 2 in order to keep the poa out and that experiment failed.


As far as I can tell, the executives at Pebble Beach like to say they are modifying the greens for more pin placements but its code that they are taking out the undulations and slopes to speed up play.

They’ve actually done quite a few at this point. 2, 6, 8, 8, 11, 13, 14, 17. They may have done 1 a while back. I’m not sure.

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