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Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: -7
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2025, 12:58:00 PM »

Scott Szabo wrote."The par 5 16th at Ballyneal and the par 4 15th at Sand Hills are great uphill holes."

I played Ballyneal this past August, and 16 is a fun hole. As I recall, the tee ball is downhill a bit, but the second and third shots are uphill to a really fun green. The second shot requires a lot of thought.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2025, 12:59:46 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mark McKeever

  • Total Karma: -2
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2025, 02:24:08 PM »
A few quick notables from the GAP


9 at Rolling Green
11 at Philly Cricket
15 at Pine Valley
13 at Gulph Mills

Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Pierre_C

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 01:56:43 AM »
My favorite uphill hole is Prestwick 5th. It's uphillish, there is a burn in front of the tee box, has a wooden wall & dune, long (200+ yards), a bell w/signage, drinking fountain, and sometimes you hit into the wind. The only things are missing from this hole are lava motte, unicorns and capercaillies.

Black Mountain Golf Course (Hua Hin, Thailand) 11th hole par 3. It's 235 yds, thin green runs parallel to tee boxes, bunkers in front and behind the green, all up hill and into prevailing wind. 280-290 yds tee shot and you hope the ball holds the green.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:24:46 AM by Pierre_C »
e^(iπ) + 1 = 0

MCirba

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 08:23:03 AM »
#13 Sand Hills
#5 Pine Valley
#4 Bedford Springs
#6 Cobbs Creek (someday soon, fingers crossed)
#10 Rolling Green
#15 Philly Country Club
#9 Scott Greens (first course I ever played)
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Niall C

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 09:08:20 AM »
I've got one that doesn't qualify as a good uphill hole for the sole reason it's an absolutely brilliant one.


Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the 13th at Silloth !


Niall

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 01:46:10 PM »
Anyone for ….. https://www.painswickgolf.com/hole-1-video ……?
Just curious.

:):):)
Atb

Mark Mammel

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 02:51:02 PM »
#8 Prairie Dunes#16 RDGC#5, 7 CPC#6 PB
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

mike_malone

  • Total Karma: -2
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 03:56:26 PM »
#13 Sand Hills
#5 Pine Valley
#4 Bedford Springs
#6 Cobbs Creek (someday soon, fingers crossed)
#10 Rolling Green
#15 Philly Country Club
#9 Scott Greens (first course I ever played)


C’mon Mike   It’s going to be 11 at Cobbs!!
AKA Mayday

MCirba

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 04:02:50 PM »
#13 Sand Hills
#5 Pine Valley
#4 Bedford Springs
#6 Cobbs Creek (someday soon, fingers crossed)
#10 Rolling Green
#15 Philly Country Club
#9 Scott Greens (first course I ever played)

C’mon Mike   It’s going to be 11 at Cobbs!!


Mayday,


Good call!


How about both??   ;D
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Dan_Callahan

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 04:19:48 PM »
The 9th hole at Newport CC is a fantastic uphill par 4. Maybe my favorite hole on the course.

Mark Pearce

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 05:20:52 PM »
I've got one that doesn't qualify as a good uphill hole for the sole reason it's an absolutely brilliant one.


Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the 13th at Silloth !


Niall
I’m ashamed I didn’t mention that.  A contender for the best par 5 in the UK
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 07:37:50 PM »

Scott Szabo wrote."The par 5 16th at Ballyneal and the par 4 15th at Sand Hills are great uphill holes."

I played Ballyneal this past August, and 16 is a fun hole. As I recall, the tee ball is downhill a bit, but the second and third shots are uphill to a really fun green. The second shot requires a lot of thought.


There are a bunch of holes on this thread that made me curious about people's ability to perceive elevation change.  This is one.


I can't dig out the topo map tonight but I will swear to you that the tee shot at 16 is to a rising fairway, but maybe still a bit below the elevated tee . . . that the second shot plays downhill through the narrow valley . . . and that the green at the end of the valley is 8-10 feet above the lowest part of the hole but still BELOW the tee and the first landing area.


But, that would explain why so many people complain of my "uphill holes" when the green is only 5-8 feet above the fairway.  I don't consider that enough of an uphill to try and avoid.

Mike_Clayton

  • Total Karma: 13
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #37 on: Today at 03:56:20 AM »
A few more from NZ/AUS:


Royal Melbourne East 4 (one of the best Par 3s I have played)
Te Arai South 11 (incredibly clever discovery of a hole to get back to the sea)
Te Arai North 10 (may not be uphill all of the way but approach shot is terrific)
Royal Melbourne West 18 (risk reward defined off of the tee)
Arrowtown 5 (rock cropping framing the hole)
Paraparaumu 13 (the green site needs to be seen)
Cape Kidnappers 4 and 17 (two really strong holes)


Ira


Kingston Heath 15.  I recently saw a newspaper piece on 15 written just after it was built (it replaced the par 4 original 15th) and the criticism was it was too difficult for a 2 iron shot (into the wind) or a 3 iron.
The game was hard then - it's an 8 iron now for a scratch player.

Mike Hendren

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #38 on: Today at 10:46:25 AM »
The 18th at NGLA and the 8th at ANGC are great holes. 


Wish you could all play the 290 7th at Rolling hills Cc in Ripley, TN. 
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: -7
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #39 on: Today at 01:45:44 PM »

Scott Szabo wrote."The par 5 16th at Ballyneal and the par 4 15th at Sand Hills are great uphill holes."

I played Ballyneal this past August, and 16 is a fun hole. As I recall, the tee ball is downhill a bit, but the second and third shots are uphill to a really fun green. The second shot requires a lot of thought.


There are a bunch of holes on this thread that made me curious about people's ability to perceive elevation change.  This is one.


I can't dig out the topo map tonight but I will swear to you that the tee shot at 16 is to a rising fairway, but maybe still a bit below the elevated tee . . . that the second shot plays downhill through the narrow valley . . . and that the green at the end of the valley is 8-10 feet above the lowest part of the hole but still BELOW the tee and the first landing area.


But, that would explain why so many people complain of my "uphill holes" when the green is only 5-8 feet above the fairway.  I don't consider that enough of an uphill to try and avoid.


Fascinating. I knew the elevation change on the tee ball was negligible. I hit my tee ball near the bunker in the left. I’d have sworn that the next shot was a little uphill. But then again I always ask my caddie if my putt is uphill or downhill. Guess I am not the best judge of terrain.


For the record I don’t complain about uphill shots from any designer. I just play them not bellyache.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #40 on: Today at 02:53:10 PM »
Seems like a fair few holes mentioned in this thread aren’t actually uphill or are only partially uphill with the balance being downhill.
Atb

Charlie Goerges

  • Total Karma: 9
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #41 on: Today at 02:59:32 PM »
For the record I don’t complain about uphill shots from any designer. I just play them not bellyache.




Generally I think this is the best policy. But last year I was playing a hole with my dad and brothers where it was so uphill from the 150 marker that I knew it would take my dad at least three shots to get home from there. I was frustrated on his behalf, just a bad hole design and verbally expressed myself on that account. In other words, I like and follow you policy, but for egregious examples, I think it's fine to speak up.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Brian Finn

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #42 on: Today at 03:50:23 PM »
The 5th hole at Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte is one of my favorite uphill holes.  I'm not certain how much elevation it covers (perhaps Matthew Wharton will see this and chime in), but the rise from tee to green is substantial.  I would guess 50-60 feet of rise, but based on other comments here, I wouldn't be surprised if it is half as much.  423 yards from the tips (377 or 355 from the next two sets forward), the tee shot plays over a modest rise, followed by a dip in the 250-270 range from the back tee.  From the dip, an approach shot of 150-175 yards plays significantly uphill to a green surface that is practically blind. 

The green is pretty large (35+ yards from front left to back right corner) with significant contours creating distinct advantage for being properly positioned.  The hole plays quite differently depending on where on the green the hole is located, with particularly devilish pin positions including on a spine running diagonally through the back left/center and another in the front left corner behind a deep guarding bunker. 

Position from the tee is also quite important for most players.  While the fairway was historically quite wide, one must be center or left in order to have an unobstructed path to the green.  From the right side of the fairway or right rough, you must hit over 2 large bunkers built into the hillside at roughly 90 and 60 yards from the center of the green.  Even when not in play, those two bunkers obstruct the view of the green and a 3rd smaller bunker set just off the front right corner of the green. For many players, the ability to run the ball onto the green is important, as it tends to be a lengthy approach.  This is not really possible from the right side.  Similarly, if you are too far left, the deep greenside bunker becomes a real concern, even though there is a wide (20+ yards) opening at the front of the green. 

For many players, angles do matter on this hole, and that brings me to another interesting aspect of the hole.  From the 423 yard tees, my tee shot normally ended up at the low point on the hole, from which my approach would be at least a full club extra, often more.  From the 377 yard tee, I was able to fly the ball over the low point, partially up the rise, leaving a much shorter and much more visible approach shot.  For this reason, I preferred playing the longer version of the hole (except in club competitions).

Finally, the green, which I partially described above, is quite challenging due to both significant slope and internal contours.  There are several spots where being just off the green on the fringe is preferable to being on the green, but in poor position.  There are some positions from which putting directly to certain hole locations will almost certainly result in rolling off the front of the green. 

It is a brilliant hole, and probably my favorite on the course.  It took quite some time, and many rounds, to arrive at this conclusion, mainly because the course has consistently strong quality throughout, with few holes distinctly better or worse than most.  Carolina has a few other very good uphill holes, but the 5th is the real standout.
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Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #43 on: Today at 04:25:31 PM »

   I attended a presentation at The Greenbrier given by Trevino, Player and Nicklaus about a new US Open quality course they had designed for Jim Justice. It has not been built.
   Nicklaus stated that the course would have a 3,000 ft. elevation change with only one uphill shot. I didn’t have the courage to ask him how such a course would be walkable. Seems like 3,000 feet of climbing between greens and tees.


Stone Eagle and Pasatiempo [which have some famously steep uphill holes] only have about 300 feet of elevation change from top to bottom.  3,000 feet seems impossible.  The course would have to start on the top of the highest ridge in the area and then plummet like a ski slope to the bottom.

Michael Felton

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #44 on: Today at 04:32:32 PM »

   I attended a presentation at The Greenbrier given by Trevino, Player and Nicklaus about a new US Open quality course they had designed for Jim Justice. It has not been built.
   Nicklaus stated that the course would have a 3,000 ft. elevation change with only one uphill shot. I didn’t have the courage to ask him how such a course would be walkable. Seems like 3,000 feet of climbing between greens and tees.


Stone Eagle and Pasatiempo [which have some famously steep uphill holes] only have about 300 feet of elevation change from top to bottom.  3,000 feet seems impossible.  The course would have to start on the top of the highest ridge in the area and then plummet like a ski slope to the bottom.


Right? Even that crazy par 3 in South Africa is only about 1,200 feet down. I guess maybe they are looking at every tee to every green rather than highest point to lowest point, but that's still nearly 170 feet of downhill per hole on average - that's still not plausible. Quintero I think has the most extreme elevation changes I've played on. I'd be quite surprised if any single hole there had 170 feet of elevation change.

Ira Fishman

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #45 on: Today at 04:40:39 PM »
The 5th hole at Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte is one of my favorite uphill holes.  I'm not certain how much elevation it covers (perhaps Matthew Wharton will see this and chime in), but the rise from tee to green is substantial.  I would guess 50-60 feet of rise, but based on other comments here, I wouldn't be surprised if it is half as much.  423 yards from the tips (377 or 355 from the next two sets forward), the tee shot plays over a modest rise, followed by a dip in the 250-270 range from the back tee.  From the dip, an approach shot of 150-175 yards plays significantly uphill to a green surface that is practically blind. 

The green is pretty large (35+ yards from front left to back right corner) with significant contours creating distinct advantage for being properly positioned.  The hole plays quite differently depending on where on the green the hole is located, with particularly devilish pin positions including on a spine running diagonally through the back left/center and another in the front left corner behind a deep guarding bunker. 

Position from the tee is also quite important for most players.  While the fairway was historically quite wide, one must be center or left in order to have an unobstructed path to the green.  From the right side of the fairway or right rough, you must hit over 2 large bunkers built into the hillside at roughly 90 and 60 yards from the center of the green.  Even when not in play, those two bunkers obstruct the view of the green and a 3rd smaller bunker set just off the front right corner of the green. For many players, the ability to run the ball onto the green is important, as it tends to be a lengthy approach.  This is not really possible from the right side.  Similarly, if you are too far left, the deep greenside bunker becomes a real concern, even though there is a wide (20+ yards) opening at the front of the green. 

For many players, angles do matter on this hole, and that brings me to another interesting aspect of the hole.  From the 423 yard tees, my tee shot normally ended up at the low point on the hole, from which my approach would be at least a full club extra, often more.  From the 377 yard tee, I was able to fly the ball over the low point, partially up the rise, leaving a much shorter and much more visible approach shot.  For this reason, I preferred playing the longer version of the hole (except in club competitions).

Finally, the green, which I partially described above, is quite challenging due to both significant slope and internal contours.  There are several spots where being just off the green on the fringe is preferable to being on the green, but in poor position.  There are some positions from which putting directly to certain hole locations will almost certainly result in rolling off the front of the green. 

It is a brilliant hole, and probably my favorite on the course.  It took quite some time, and many rounds, to arrive at this conclusion, mainly because the course has consistently strong quality throughout, with few holes distinctly better or worse than most.  Carolina has a few other very good uphill holes, but the 5th is the real standout.


Brian,


Hope Valley 4 is very similar to the hole you describe. Another Ross design from the same time period. The green stretches from front right and has a false front (which has become more severe over time), but otherwise sounds much like Carolina Golf 5 including the rise and dip and then pronounced uphill with similar tee yard choices. It is a very good hole although one of the more difficult ones on the course regardless of tee choice.


Ira

Jon Claydon

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #46 on: Today at 04:47:53 PM »
16 at Ballybunion is a great uphill par 5 in my humble opinion.


Upon consideration, there are several holes at Sand Hills that seemingly play uphill:  1, 2 (a little), 5 (a little), 11, 15 (as mentioned previously), 17 and 18. 

Ira Fishman

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #47 on: Today at 04:48:56 PM »
A few more from NZ/AUS:


Royal Melbourne East 4 (one of the best Par 3s I have played)
Te Arai South 11 (incredibly clever discovery of a hole to get back to the sea)
Te Arai North 10 (may not be uphill all of the way but approach shot is terrific)
Royal Melbourne West 18 (risk reward defined off of the tee)
Arrowtown 5 (rock cropping framing the hole)
Paraparaumu 13 (the green site needs to be seen)
Cape Kidnappers 4 and 17 (two really strong holes)


Ira


Kingston Heath 15.  I recently saw a newspaper piece on 15 written just after it was built (it replaced the par 4 original 15th) and the criticism was it was too difficult for a 2 iron shot (into the wind) or a 3 iron.
The game was hard then - it's an 8 iron now for a scratch player.


Mike,


Our small sample size was biased toward great courses, but the Par3s on the Sandbelt courses we played were uniformly superb. As noted above, RM East 4 was my favorite, but that probably will change back and forth over time of reflection. I do not think I fully appreciated KH 15 from the tee because the pin was front so it was not until we finished putting that I focused on the rest of the various (and treacherous) pin placements.


Ira

John Handley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Good uphill holes
« Reply #48 on: Today at 05:18:25 PM »
#13 at Cal Club is a fantastic uphill par 4.  Not overly long in yardage but between the uphill and into the prevailing wind, it plays much longer.  With the bunkering and the back to front sloped green, a 4 is a very, very good score. 
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