Amazing Stats and J Braid

[ward peyronnin]

Golf, like many endeavors, produces many forms of amazing achievements framed within statistics.
Bobby Jone's perfect round at Sunningdale, legendary long drives, and I once played a round at Victoria where the pro carded scores of 1-7 upon reaching the ninth hole. Deaf to my pleas to mange his way to an 8 on the par five he blew the chance to post a memorable straight.
James Braid was one of the best ever players to design golf courses. In ten years at the Open he won five and finished with two seconds, a third, and two other top five finishes. He also was the original and only pro at Walton Heath, a champiosnship venue, for ~47 years.
However I was gobsmacked to hear on the Cookie Jar podcast regarding Braid Phillip Truitt state that Braid MADE A TWO ON EVERY ONE OF THE 36 HOLES AT HIS CLUB. This is one of the most astounding achievemnets I can recall hearing but I am keen to read of others that  you all can share. Let's just not fall into the baseball trap and overdoo it.

[David_Tepper]

Ken Venturi grew up playing Harding Park. From an article in the Florida Sun-Times:


"Nantz said Venturi played Harding Park so many times he eagled every hole except one, and had a ringer score of 35-under par. "

[John Mayhugh]

Ward,
At Walton Heath, Braid's workshop has a small exhibition dedicated to him. This is part of it.
P1050188 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

[David_Tepper]

As a player, course designer and club professional, would it be a stretch to say James Braid is the greatest figure in the history of British golf (Old Tom excepted)?

[Niall C]

As a player, course designer and club professional, would it be a stretch to say James Braid is the greatest figure in the history of British golf (Old Tom excepted)?

David


You could argue that and I'm sure Simon would, but there are a few other figures in the mix so as to likely make any vote far from unanimous.


Niall

[David_Tepper]

Niall -


I did not say/claim it would be unanimous or that Braid was the only one worth considering. But his record of achievement in 3 areas of the game is very impressive.


Who would the 3 or 4 people be on your short list?


DT
 

[Brian_Ewen]

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ward,


Bill Tennant at Portrush had made a two at every hole until he finally got an ace (for an eclectic 35) only a few years before he died, this being quite recently:


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=63897.0

[ward peyronnin]

Well done Ally. That is proper golf.
Admutted conformation bias but I agree with Davis. For a figure to be on the ground in the game as significantly and as long as Mr. Braid is unique.

But then there is out friend Cory Lewis whose course count is well over one thousand and he is energizer bunnying on!

Also a marvelous story that is as much an account of 1930's depression mania as about golf

 The KIng of Clubs:
In September 1938, thirty-two-year-old J. Smith Ferebee agreed to play 600 holes of golf in eight cities, from Los Angeles to New York, over four consecutive days. The ordeal meant playing more than thirty-three rounds in just ninety-six hours. The Ferebee’s friend and former business partner Fred Tuerk agreed that if Ferebee succeeded, he would pay on Ferebee’s behalf a $20,000 mortgage on 296 acres of waterfront Virginia land.

[Joe Bausch]

From one of your clubs, Ward!

[ward peyronnin]

My Dad made the Sports Illustrated week in sports in the 60's from a round at Rolling Hills, the same course.
The pro placed a new member in Dad's threesome which involved the initiate in a game of 6-6-6 nassau for real money. Dad, in opposition, aced the fourth.
Sides switched and Ed Gentry ,now in opposition, aced no 11. Milt Black, now in opposition, holed a three iron for eagle on number 18. Two hole in ones in the same group made quite an impression and , amazingly, Claude Geiser did not immediately revoke his new membership.

[Simon Barrington]

As a player, course designer and club professional, would it be a stretch to say James Braid is the greatest figure in the history of British golf (Old Tom excepted)?

David
You could argue that and I'm sure Simon would, but there are a few other figures in the mix so as to likely make any vote far from unanimous.
Niall

I would defer from arguing that any member of "The Great Triumvirate" (i.e Vardon, Taylor & Braid) should be considered above the other two.

After all that is the very definition of the description:
      "a group of three people who share power."

They all made incredible, extensive, and collective contributions to so many facets of this great game, to argue to separate or rank between them is a fool's errand.

The more I read about JHT the more impressed I become, and I expect the same when I dig into Vardon's story too.

I strongly believe that James Braid's design contribution and talent is grossly under appreciated.

I shudder to think how well he would be regarded if he had dedicated his entire time solely to design, and if he hadn't had sea-sickness!

That I am very happy to discuss/debate; but that is to elevate him, and appreciation of his work, rather than denigrate any others of the age.

Cheers!

[Simon Barrington]

Golf, like many endeavors, produces many forms of amazing achievements framed within statistics.
Bobby Jone's perfect round at Sunningdale, legendary long drives, and I once played a round at Victoria where the pro carded scores of 1-7 upon reaching the ninth hole. Deaf to my pleas to mange his way to an 8 on the par five he blew the chance to post a memorable straight.
James Braid was one of the best ever players to design golf courses. In ten years at the Open he won five and finished with two seconds, a third, and two other top five finishes. He also was the original and only pro at Walton Heath, a champiosnship venue, for ~47 years.
However I was gobsmacked to hear on the Cookie Jar podcast regarding Braid Phillip Truitt state that Braid MADE A TWO ON EVERY ONE OF THE 36 HOLES AT HIS CLUB. This is one of the most astounding achievemnets I can recall hearing but I am keen to read of others that  you all can share. Let's just not fall into the baseball trap and overdoo it.

To put this feat into context, James Braid played almost every day at Walton Heath.
c.7+ rounds a week (sometimes several more), 40 weeks a year (he had 90 days away from Walton by his contract for play & his design work) for 45 years is a lot of rounds & shots (c.12,500 rounds & c.450,000 full shots) struck by one of the best that has ever been.
Nevertheless it is a truly incredible feat by a great man.

Also worth noting that (as per the additional information that John M added) Braid also had 18x Holes-in-One, and many of these will no doubt have been at Walton Heath, hence his "Eclectic 36 Hole" score was likely well below 72, but I have not yet seen any analysis of where those 18 Aces were made...

[Michael Felton]

As a player, course designer and club professional, would it be a stretch to say James Braid is the greatest figure in the history of British golf (Old Tom excepted)?

David
You could argue that and I'm sure Simon would, but there are a few other figures in the mix so as to likely make any vote far from unanimous.
Niall

I would defer from arguing that any member of "The Great Triumvirate" (i.e Vardon, Taylor & Braid) should be considered above the other two.

After all that is the very definition of the description:
      "a group of three people who share power."

They all made incredible, extensive, and collective contributions to so many facets of this great game, to argue to separate or rank between them is a fool's errand.

The more I read about JHT the more impressed I become, and I expect the same when I dig into Vardon's story too.

I strongly believe that James Braid's design contribution and talent is grossly under appreciated.

I shudder to think how well he would be regarded if he had dedicated his entire time solely to design, and if he hadn't had sea-sickness!

That I am very happy to discuss/debate; but that is to elevate him, and appreciation of his work, rather than denigrate any others of the age.

Cheers!

The Greatest Game Ever Played by Mark Frost is a good start on Vardon. Fascinating stuff in there and, while I'm not sure it's entirely non-fiction, I think the stuff about Vardon is basically true to life. Frightening to think how good he could have been had it not been for his health issues.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Much more under the radar I've always been astounded that my home club - Belleair CC - has only had 5 head pros in 125 years,  the first three all won the US Open, one of them twice.  We also had a member win the US Open!

[David_Tepper]

Simon B. -


How active were Vardon, Taylor and Ray in the field of golf course design and consultation? I am under the impression that Braid's involvement in this aspect of golf was far greater than the others. That is the reason I think he is such an important figure.


Please let me know if I am mistaken about this.


DT

[Simon Barrington]

Simon B. -
How active were Vardon, Taylor and Ray in the field of golf course design and consultation? I am under the impression that Braid's involvement in this aspect of golf was far greater than the others. That is the reason I think he is such an important figure.
Please let me know if I am mistaken about this.
DT

Vardon designed a number of courses across GB & Ireland, several notable ones but many were later updated/revised by others, including;
Royal Co. Down, Woodhall Spa, Little Aston, Hanbury Manor (original 9-Holes), Heswall, Dunfanaghy, Bundoran, Abersoch, & Llandrindod Wells.


JHT - was even more active in course design himself, courses including; Burnham & Berrow, Hayling Island, Queens Park, Hainault Forest, Royal Mid Surrey (incl. Alpinisation of course), York, Richmond Park, Ogbourne Downs, Goring & Streatley, Maidenhead (about to close for housing), & Long Ashton.
He was a notable proponent and leader of both Municipal and Artisan Golf.
Furthermore JHT entered into partnership as a constructor with Fred Hawtree (following Hawtree learning his trade directly under Braid's design supervision at Sundridge Park, where he was greenkeeper, and Croham Hurst).
The Hawtree & Taylor partnership completing great work for James Braid on several occassions. Most successfully for example at Ipswich (Purdis Heath) where, as occassionally occurs, Hawtree & Taylor were mis-attributed for the design rather than the construction.
It can be a tangled web to unravel at times.
Topically for 20205 Hawtree & Taylor also remodelled Royal Birkdale in 1932.


Ted Ray - Did write a book called "Inland Golf" but advised on only a few courses including, Oxhey (where he was Professional), Sandiway, & Bury St Edmunds.


OTM (of course), Allan Robertson, The Simpsons (of Elie and later Aberdeen), Tom Williamson (Notts - Hollinwell - et al.), Willie Fernie, George Lowe, Sandy Herd & The Allans (of RND) are also Professionals worthy of mention as having designed courses.


As you might expect I agree that, in the aspect of course design, James Braid sits "primus inter pares" among the UK Professionals.

Cheers

[David_Tepper]

Simon -


Thanks for all that information. Very informative and good to know.


DT