Golf Digest Best New

[Sam Morrow]

Frankly I’ll be very surprised if anyone posts here that’s seen all three.

I looked back.  So far in four pages of this thread we've only heard from three people who have visited The Covey: 


Sam Morrow [who's a fan, and hasn't seen the other contenders],
Paul Jones [who hasn't said much about it],
and Derek Duncan [who is obliged to defend the result].

Tom,


I loved the course and think it is the best in Texas.  However, it seems that Sam is the only person that played it so not much to discuss.  I spent 2 days with a friend who is a member and attend the club Christmas party.


I remember just about every hole and could talk more about the course, but this discussion seems to go in different direction.


I have played Tree Farm couple of times, but only the loop (7-hole preview loop) at Old Barnwell.

I've gone back and forth and can't decide if it's my favorite course in Texas but it's definitely close. I still can't get over how much fun the green complexes were, I'd feel like I'd had a fun day if you just had me drop 50 yards from every green and play in from there.

[Tom_Doak]

I loved the course and think it is the best in Texas.  However, it seems that Sam is the only person that played it so not much to discuss.  I spent 2 days with a friend who is a member and attend the club Christmas party.

I remember just about every hole and could talk more about the course, but this discussion seems to go in different direction.

I've gone back and forth and can't decide if it's my favorite course in Texas but it's definitely close. I still can't get over how much fun the green complexes were, I'd feel like I'd had a fun day if you just had me drop 50 yards from every green and play in from there.

Well, keeping in mind that it may no longer be the best course in Texas [because I just built a new strong contender], what else are you guys considering as its competition for the title?


I haven't seen everything in TX but as of a few years ago, it was not a strong field.

[Tom_Doak]

I loved the course and think it is the best in Texas.  However, it seems that Sam is the only person that played it so not much to discuss.  I spent 2 days with a friend who is a member and attend the club Christmas party.

I remember just about every hole and could talk more about the course, but this discussion seems to go in different direction.

Paul:


Then what are we all here for?  You're one of the only people who has actually seen the course, but you don't want to chime in because someone else hijacked the thread?


I think it was only right to be properly skeptical when there was only one admirer of the course, Sam, who isn't well known around here [at least as far as I know].  There were more people back in the day who insisted that Lakota Canyon was The Greatest Course Evah.  I have no sense of Sam's tastes.  So it would add a lot to the discussion if there were two people who actually agreed and could say why.


Did you not play?  Too cold?

[Sam Morrow]

I loved the course and think it is the best in Texas.  However, it seems that Sam is the only person that played it so not much to discuss.  I spent 2 days with a friend who is a member and attend the club Christmas party.

I remember just about every hole and could talk more about the course, but this discussion seems to go in different direction.

I've gone back and forth and can't decide if it's my favorite course in Texas but it's definitely close. I still can't get over how much fun the green complexes were, I'd feel like I'd had a fun day if you just had me drop 50 yards from every green and play in from there.

Well, keeping in mind that it may no longer be the best course in Texas [because I just built a new strong contender], what else are you guys considering as its competition for the title?


I haven't seen everything in TX but as of a few years ago, it was not a strong field.

Tom,


The other courses I'd consider in the conversation are Whispering Pines, Wolf Point, Austin Golf Club, Boot Ranch, and Dallas National. I haven't played Brook Hollow since the most recent work has been done but have heard great things.

[Adam Lawrence]

There were more people back in the day who insisted that Lakota Canyon was The Greatest Course Evah.

I think tbf, that was just Cary

[Kalen Braley]

These last few posts really beg for an analysis to come up with a top 10 list of courses which debuted at or near the top, and then dropped off the proverbial face of the earth.  Someone on here must have easy access to all the best new lists for the last 20 years or so.

P.S.  Adam I remember the chatter on Lakota to be as Tom recalls it.  So much so I put it near the top of my list to go see it and did.

[Tim_Weiman]

Guys,


Prior to this thread I didn’t know there was a difference between what Golf Digest requires for Best New and Top 100 in terms of the number of raters who have seen a course.


Does anyone know the exact numbers?


Tim

[John Kirk]

Tom,


I loved the course and think it is the best in Texas.  However, it seems that Sam is the only person that played it so not much to discuss.  I spent 2 days with a friend who is a member and attend the club Christmas party.


I remember just about every hole and could talk more about the course, but this discussion seems to go in different direction.


I have played Tree Farm couple of times, but only the loop (7-hole preview loop) at Old Barnwell.

I've gone back and forth and can't decide if it's my favorite course in Texas but it's definitely close. I still can't get over how much fun the green complexes were, I'd feel like I'd had a fun day if you just had me drop 50 yards from every green and play in from there.

Chet Williams also designed Whispering Pines (opened in 2000).  Both Golf Digest and GolfWeek have consistently recognized Whispering Pines as a top course in Texas.  Currently Whispering Pines is ranked #51 in the U.S. by Golf Digest, while GolfWeek has it ranked #31 among modern U.S. courses.

The few photos of the Covey are compelling.  Most of the water hazards appear to be of the stream/creek variety, which can be a very interesting hazard, and always better than a pond or lake.  Also, the green complexes definitely seem to be varied and undulating, and perhaps more daring than Williams's Whispering Pines design.

Once again, I hope they can keep the trees in play on the course healthy and happy.

I have a question.  The course description cites an 80-foot elevation change on the course.  How does elevation change come into play?  Are there a couple of uphill approach shots?  Is the course walkable for a fit young player?  For example, could they host a collegiate tournament in the spring or fall where the players walk and carry their clubs?

[Tom_Doak]

There were more people back in the day who insisted that Lakota Canyon was The Greatest Course Evah.

I think tbf, that was just Cary

Oh, no, you forgot Matt Ward, pardner. 

[Tom_Doak]

These last few posts really beg for an analysis to come up with a top 10 list of courses which debuted at or near the top, and then dropped off the proverbial face of the earth.  Someone on here must have easy access to all the best new lists for the last 20 years or so.

I will start it for you:

1.  Stonehouse




Also, just for fun, I found the Best New Private list for 2006.  I'm not a GOLF DIGEST PLUS subscriber so I had to go back to an old Golf Club Atlas post.  Here it is:


1. THE CONCESSION G.C.[/size]Bradenton, Fla. • 7,470 yards, par 72. • Jack Nicklaus and Tony Jacklin, designers. • Initiation fee: $125,000 (property owner); $150,000. • theconcession.com2. FOREST CREEK G.C. (NORTH CSE.)• Pinehurst, N.C. • 7,139 yards, par 72 • Tom Fazio. v Fee: $65,000.3. THE C. AT CARLTON WOODS (FAZIO CSE.)• The Woodlands, Tex. • 7,358 yards, par 72. • Tom Fazio. • Fee: $125,000. • theclubatcarltonwoods.com4. CHAMPIONS RETREAT G.C. (BLUFF & ISLAND NINES)• Evans, Ga. • 7,265 yards, par 72. •Jack Nicklaus/Arnold Palmer, Ed Seay and Harrison Minchew. • Fee: $30,000 (individual); $35,000 (corporate). v championsretreat.net5. 3 CREEK RANCH G.C.• Jackson, Wyo. •7,729 yards, par 72. • Rees Jones. • Fee: $150,000. • 3creekranchgolf.com6. BALLYNEAL• Holyoke, Colo. • 7,147 yards, par 71. • Tom Doak. • Fee: $50,000. • ballyneal.com7. TUMBLE CREEK G. CSE. AT SUNCADIA• Cle Elum, Wash. • 7,070 yards, par 71. • Tom Doak. • Fee: $60,000. • tumblecreek.com8. DANIEL ISLAND C. (RALSTON CREEK CSE.)• Daniel Island, S.C. • 7,446 yards, par 72. • Rees Jones. • Fee: $65,000 (property owner); $90,000. • danielisland.com9. STONE EAGLE C.• Palm Desert, Calif. • 6,840 yards, par 71. • Tom Doak. • Fee: From $50,000 (junior) to $175,000 (full). •stoneeagleclub.com10. TUHAYE G. CSE.• Tuhaye, Utah. • 7,800 yards, par 72. • Mark O'Meara and Brit Stenson. • Fee: $100,000 (property ownership required). • taliskerclub.com[/color]

[Sam Morrow]

John, I too like the streams, they fit in and really compliment the rest of the property.


I would call the elevation changes subdued. There's lot of up and down but nothing I'd call overly dramatic.


It's very walkable, it wouldn't be the easiest walk in the world but gimme a push cart or my Mackenzie and even I could get around.

[Tom_Doak]

John, I too like the streams, they fit in and really compliment the rest of the property.

Are the streams natural or man-made?  [Or could you tell?]


In a lot of states you are not allowed to get a fairway or green very close to a natural water body, so seeing that kind of thing on a new course is a treat.  But usually it's also a sign that the stream isn't natural.

[Matt Schoolfield]

Are the streams natural or man-made?  [Or could you tell?]


In a lot of states you are not allowed to get a fairway or green very close to a natural water body, so seeing that kind of thing on a new course is a treat.  But usually it's also a sign that the stream isn't natural.

Just looking on google maps, it seems that the creeks could not possibly be natural. I confirmed this on google earth historical aerials, which show no natural bodies of water. It does look like there are some arroyos, which are common in Texas, but they generally only carry water during and immediately after a thunderstorm.

With a bit more research, it appears the nearest flowing creek is Cummins Creek on the east side of the Big Easy Ranch property.

[Sam Morrow]

John, I too like the streams, they fit in and really compliment the rest of the property.

Are the streams natural or man-made?  [Or could you tell?]


In a lot of states you are not allowed to get a fairway or green very close to a natural water body, so seeing that kind of thing on a new course is a treat.  But usually it's also a sign that the stream isn't natural.

I think most are made man but driving out of Columbus down the County road I could see some movement in the woods so maybe some of its natural.

[Paul Jones]

Tom,


Whispering Pines is usually the highest ranked course in Texas.  Chet Williams had a better piece of land at Big Easy than Whispering Pines.  I was shocked at the land movement and how owner had 5000 acres? and told Chet that he could build the course anywhere he wants since they can hunt anywhere on the property.


I have played most of the top courses in Texas: Whispering Pines, Dallas Natl, Champions, Bluejack Natl, Colonial, etc.  - Wolf Point was always my favorite experience with Mike and Don but will probably never go back as all my great memorious were with them. Not sure what happen after Dormie purchased it.


I loved the opening hole, dogleg right up the hill with an incredible green (large with great movement) and nasty false front.


I do not remember who in the beginning of the thread pooped on hole 3 from an aerial/drone view. I thought the hole was good and tree made it better since it is a short hole, I think driver and wedge both days I played.


I think they had a fantastic set of Par 5s, which I find rare and everyone was different.  7th hole might be my favorite of all the par 5s with the creek in front of the green but enough room to carry it and still not make the green which can leave a very difficult chip.


Par 3s were all different, hit a different club on each one and all had exciting greens. 


I played the course 2 days straight and it was chilly to cold, but not enough to skip a round.  Green complexes are fantastic.  I will post more later, watching Pebble Beach.

[Tom_Doak]

Thanks Paul.

[Adam Lawrence]

There were more people back in the day who insisted that Lakota Canyon was The Greatest Course Evah.

I think tbf, that was just Cary

Oh, no, you forgot Matt Ward, pardner. 

LOL, you're right!

[Sam Morrow]

Tom,


Whispering Pines is usually the highest ranked course in Texas.  Chet Williams had a better piece of land at Big Easy than Whispering Pines.  I was shocked at the land movement and how owner had 5000 acres? and told Chet that he could build the course anywhere he wants since they can hunt anywhere on the property.


I have played most of the top courses in Texas: Whispering Pines, Dallas Natl, Champions, Bluejack Natl, Colonial, etc.  - Wolf Point was always my favorite experience with Mike and Don but will probably never go back as all my great memorious were with them. Not sure what happen after Dormie purchased it.


I loved the opening hole, dogleg right up the hill with an incredible green (large with great movement) and nasty false front.


I do not remember who in the beginning of the thread pooped on hole 2 from an aerial/drone view. I thought the hole was good and tree made it better since it is a short hole, I think driver and wedge both days I played.


I think they had a fantastic set of Par 5s, which I find rare and everyone was different.  7th hole might be my favorite of all the par 5s with the creek in front of the green but enough room to carry it and still not make the green which can leave a very difficult chip.


Par 3s were all different, hit a different club on each one and all had exciting greens. 


I played the course 2 days straight and it was chilly to cold, but not enough to skip a round.  Green complexes are fantastic.  I will post more later, watching Pebble Beach.

Paul,


Toss a ball in the left green side bunker on 7, might be the hardest bunker shot I've ever hit. I hit what everyone thought was a great shot only to watch it cascade off the green towards the creek. It was enough that then entire group had to try the shot.........with similar results!

[Paul Jones]

The tree on the 3rd hole, reminded me of a Dick Wilson hole where he puts a tree in the middle of the fairway.  3rd hole is a short par 5, but slightly uphill but has plenty of room for a layup area.  I missed the fairway twice and had to layup and then hit a wedge over the tree into the green.


5th hole is a great downhill dogleg left cape hole. Someone in my group took it over everything and sent straight for the green.


8th might be my favorite straight hole, short hole (usually do not like straight holes).  The long hitter tried to drive it over the crossing creek, I use the right fairway 1st day as the pin was back left and the left fairway the next day.  I love all the options as you can tee off with a 6 iron or a driver and everything in between.

[Sam Morrow]

There were questions about the creeks on The Covey, got confirmation that they are all natural.

[Matt Schoolfield]

There were questions about the creeks on The Covey, got confirmation that they are all natural.

We may be having a disagreement on what creek means. I pointed out earlier that anyone can trivially look at aerials of the site from 1995 to 2012 when the main tank is being created. Before that, there are arroyos which again, are everywhere in Texas, but there is only one potential creek that looks like it is could be large enough to carry water continuously, and it's not marked on the Texas waterways maps.

I don't know what else to say. On Google Earth you can see the main tank being built in 2012 with large waterways existing after it that just weren't there before. With the second tank being added in 2017, and extended to add another large waterway in 2022. I have no doubt these were the natural low-lying areas, but this really feels like as "who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes" kind of assertion. You can literally see the treads if heavy machinery in the ground at the site of one of the larger waterways in the 2012 aerial.

[John Kavanaugh]

Matt,


The Mississippi is still a natural river despite the fact it wouldn’t be navigable without the hand of man.

[Matt Schoolfield]

John,

The Mississippi was a river before the hand of man touched it. I don't think I understand your point.

[Sam Morrow]

Matt,


The architect told me this, he's a pretty good source.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

The Mississippi was a river before the hand of man touched it. I don't think I understand your point.

“Then came the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, damming and channeling the big river until it assumed its form today: A giant barge canal, mostly devoid of animal life.” These days, the Mississippi is more an over-engineered canal prone to catastrophic flood than the dynamic natural system it once was.”

I like this description. Every golf course has a touch of the Mississippi.

[Tags:]

Tags: