Golf Digest Best New

[Ryan Book]

Two years ago, the winner in this category was Pete Dye's design at White Oak, a course that caught many by surprise for its lack of hype (even less so than Covey's). I can't remember what the runner-ups were that year but it stands to reason that we're shocked at least in part because of these courses' lack of internet presence. There are few private clubs with as deep a social media presence as Old Barnwell.


Haven't played any of these. Only an observation.


To Tom's point, the public winners always seem to generate less complaint...which I presume is because those courses have a financial interested in generating hype. (This year's winners...1) Pinehurst No. 10    2) Karoo      3) Sedge Valley)

[John Mayhugh]

You said what you said own it.

What, exactly, am I not owning? I simply tried to explain the concept of opportunity cost making this course less compelling than others. You and Golf Digest raters are entitled to feel differently.

Thank God I didn't comment on the two story halfway house!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Congrats to my former employee.  He was and is a heck of a designer.  He left me and went to JN, and I see influences from both of us, albeit more from Jack's side, which makes sense since he worked there later and longer than for me.

The tree on 3 looks like it is near the apex of the approach shot, offering the options of a fade, draw, or high shot.  I know many don't like trees, but I think this works just fine.  Ditto the double fw on 8.  I mean, the idea is not new.  I think this is well executed at least from the aerial view.  Choices include laying back far enough on the right to be able to fly the tree and hitting it very long on the left to get past the 3 trees, which improves the approach angle (if you still believe in that sort of thing......)  or laying up well back in the wider portion of the fw, which narrows just as the distance advantage is gained.


Congrats again.  I always like to see my proteges (including John Colligan and Jeff Blume) appear on these lists.  They get all the credit, but I like to think I taught them something that contributed to their success.


(edited to switch hole numbers)

[Sam Morrow]

You said what you said own it.

What, exactly, am I not owning? I simply tried to explain the concept of opportunity cost making this course less compelling than others. You and Golf Digest raters are entitled to feel differently.

Thank God I didn't comment on the two story halfway house!

I'm not a Digest Rater and not sure what the 2 story halfway house has to do with anything.

[Kalen Braley]

You said what you said own it.

What, exactly, am I not owning? I simply tried to explain the concept of opportunity cost making this course less compelling than others. You and Golf Digest raters are entitled to feel differently.

Thank God I didn't comment on the two story halfway house!

I'm not a Digest Rater and not sure what the 2 story halfway house has to do with anything.

Sam I assume he's alluding to the "exclusive enclave" effect.

Getting to play a difficult to access course, where you barely see another group, have full access to lavish rest stations and other posh amenities and overall treated like a king for a day.  I'm not a rater either, but certainly felt the intoxicating effect of this when i played courses like Sanctuary and Gozzer.

P.S.  #8 looks intriguing to me, even if its not everyone's cup of tea.

[Sam Morrow]

You said what you said own it.

What, exactly, am I not owning? I simply tried to explain the concept of opportunity cost making this course less compelling than others. You and Golf Digest raters are entitled to feel differently.

Thank God I didn't comment on the two story halfway house!

I'm not a Digest Rater and not sure what the 2 story halfway house has to do with anything.

Sam I assume he's alluding to the "exclusive enclave" effect.

Getting to play a difficult to access course, where you barely see another group, have full access to lavish rest stations and other posh amenities and overall treated like a king for a day.  I'm not a rater either, but certainly felt the intoxicating effect of this when i played courses like Sanctuary and Gozzer.

P.S.  #8 looks intriguing to me, even if its not everyone's cup of tea.

For sure, I just don't think mentioning the halfway house added anything to the topic. Since John mentioned it the view is very pretty from up there.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

For those that have played The Covey, could you explain (or what you think is) the strategy behind the design of the 8th. How did you play it?


From the photos and aerial (posted by John), I just can't see any reason why you would play to the left fairway? One possibility - which might only apply to top amateurs and pros - is if the flag was very close to the right edge of the green, or if the green slopes severely from right to left. But for us mortal souls, I'd assume the vast majority would take the direct line to the green. Any other reasons why you might choose to go left? I'm guessing the green is quite difficult to approach directly, especially if you're hunting for birdies.

[Sam Morrow]

For those that have played The Covey, could you explain (or what you think is) the strategy behind the design of the 8th. How did you play it?


From the photos and aerial (posted by John), I just can't see any reason why you would play to the left fairway? One possibility - which might only apply to top amateurs and pros - is if the flag was very close to the right edge of the green, or if the green slopes severely from right to left. But for us mortal souls, I'd assume the vast majority would take the direct line to the green. Any other reasons why you might choose to go left? I'm guessing the green is quite difficult to approach directly, especially if you're hunting for birdies.

Everyone in my group went right but me. I was shooting a million and figured I'd try the different angle. The right fairway is shorter but as someone who plays a hook if looked awkward to me, just didn't feel comfortable. Took it up the left side which is much wider but definitely longer. The pin was left that day so it was a terrible angle but to the right pin I could see going left. Next play I'll try to get comfortable with the visual and take it right.

[JC Jones]

Michael,


I don't post here any longer for obvious reasons, but the photo you clipped is not from The Covey. If you'd been there you'd know that.


Just trying to get ahead of the shit show. Everyone should go back to the much more interesting and important Hal Hicks post.

Derek,


I'm wondering how GD was able to get the requisite number of panelists to visit the course such that it could get a high ranking.  Was there a panelist outing there as there was with White Oak?  Or, was this an editorial decision that was made?  It was my understanding that the data had Tree Farm and Old Barnwell as the clear #1 & #2.


Either way, I look forward to your serendipitously timed podcast with the architect next week.

[PCCraig]

Either way, I look forward to your serendipitously timed podcast with the architect next week.

Well, you called it! Podcast with Chet Williams was posted today! Can't make it up! 

[Derek_Duncan]

Michael,


I don't post here any longer for obvious reasons, but the photo you clipped is not from The Covey. If you'd been there you'd know that.


Just trying to get ahead of the shit show. Everyone should go back to the much more interesting and important Hal Hicks post.

Derek,


I'm wondering how GD was able to get the requisite number of panelists to visit the course such that it could get a high ranking.  Was there a panelist outing there as there was with White Oak?  Or, was this an editorial decision that was made?  It was my understanding that the data had Tree Farm and Old Barnwell as the clear #1 & #2.


Either way, I look forward to your serendipitously timed podcast with the architect next week.

JC,


We require just 15 evaluations for a course to be eligible to win Best New. We had over 25 get to The Covey before the deadline. This is the benefit of having a large panel who also are avid travelers. People from around the country visited The Covey independently over the course of several months.


We did not do a rater day at White Oak. Panelists went there individually over the course of about 12 months.


The data determines the winner. There's no editorial decision-making involved. At the time we closed the balloting, The Covey had the highest score. Period.


So, I don't know where you're getting your information but it seems to be universally wrong.

[JC Jones]

Hi Derek,


I am well aware that Golf Digest did not do an official "rater day" at White Oak.  I'm also well aware that Golf Digest is careful in the way they word things such that when 10 or 15 panelists show up on the same day, it's not officially an "outing." Very much like the "non-outing" that Golf Digest is planning at Cabot Citrus Farms in March.  I am also aware that Golf Digest had a deal with White Oak where White Oak would only allow Golf Digest raters for its first year and would not accept unaccompanied visits from panelists of other publications.  Was there a similar arrangement with The Covey?  And, how does the conveniently timed podcast play into this?  Was that part of a marketing package The Covey purchased with Golf Digest, or just coincidence?


I'm also curious about when you might have closed the balloting and how much of a surprise it must have been when it did close and you found out The Covey had won.  Especially considering Golf Digest told a certain course they were going to be "Best New Private" and apparently when they did so, the balloting had not yet closed.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Congrats to my former employee.  He was and is a heck of a designer.  He left me and went to JN, and I see influences from both of us, albeit more from Jack's side, which makes sense since he worked there later and longer than for me.

Jeff
It would be interesting for you to share the influences you notice... could you?


Sam
I'm glad you are enjoying them all and expressing your opinions!
It is possible for someone to have enough of an opinion just from images.... look at Brauer's comments.


cheers

[Stewart Abramson]

Hi Derek,


I am well aware that Golf Digest did not do an official "rater day" at White Oak.  I'm also well aware that Golf Digest is careful in the way they word things such that when 10 or 15 panelists show up on the same day, it's not officially an "outing." Very much like the "non-outing" that Golf Digest is planning at Cabot Citrus Farms in March.  I am also aware that Golf Digest had a deal with White Oak where White Oak would only allow Golf Digest raters for its first year and would not accept unaccompanied visits from panelists of other publications.  Was there a similar arrangement with The Covey?  And, how does the conveniently timed podcast play into this?  Was that part of a marketing package The Covey purchased with Golf Digest, or just coincidence?


I'm also curious about when you might have closed the balloting and how much of a surprise it must have been when it did close and you found out The Covey had won.  Especially considering Golf Digest told a certain course they were going to be "Best New Private" and apparently when they did so, the balloting had not yet closed.

JC, I'm re-posting the above to fix the font issue


" Hi Derek,
I am well aware that Golf Digest did not do an official "rater day" at White Oak.  I'm also well aware that Golf Digest is careful in the way they word things such that when 10 or 15 panelists show up on the same day, it's not officially an "outing." Very much like the "non-outing" that Golf Digest is planning at Cabot Citrus Farms in March.  I am also aware that Golf Digest had a deal with White Oak where White Oak would only allow Golf Digest raters for its first year and would not accept unaccompanied visits from panelists of other publications.  Was there a similar arrangement with The Covey?  And, how does the conveniently timed podcast play into this?  Was that part of a marketing package The Covey purchased with Golf Digest, or just coincidence?

I'm also curious about when you might have closed the balloting and how much of a surprise it must have been when it did close and you found out The Covey had won.  Especially considering Golf Digest told a certain course they were going to be "Best New Private" and apparently when they did so, the balloting had not yet closed."

[Sam Morrow]

Congrats to my former employee.  He was and is a heck of a designer.  He left me and went to JN, and I see influences from both of us, albeit more from Jack's side, which makes sense since he worked there later and longer than for me.

Jeff
It would be interesting for you to share the influences you notice... could you?


Sam
I'm glad you are enjoying them all and expressing your opinions!
It is possible for someone to have enough of an opinion just from images.... look at Brauer's comments.


cheers

No i don't think you can form a full opinion just on an aerial. You can get broad strokes but you can't see true ground movement. I don't think this applies to just The Covey. Let's take 14 at Augusta, pretty confident most everyone here knows how wild that green is. Go look at the aerial, looks flat as a pancake.

[Derek_Duncan]

Hi Derek,


I am well aware that Golf Digest did not do an official "rater day" at White Oak.  I'm also well aware that Golf Digest is careful in the way they word things such that when 10 or 15 panelists show up on the same day, it's not officially an "outing." Very much like the "non-outing" that Golf Digest is planning at Cabot Citrus Farms in March.  I am also aware that Golf Digest had a deal with White Oak where White Oak would only allow Golf Digest raters for its first year and would not accept unaccompanied visits from panelists of other publications.  Was there a similar arrangement with The Covey?  And, how does the conveniently timed podcast play into this?  Was that part of a marketing package The Covey purchased with Golf Digest, or just coincidence?


I'm also curious about when you might have closed the balloting and how much of a surprise it must have been when it did close and you found out The Covey had won.  Especially considering Golf Digest told a certain course they were going to be "Best New Private" and apparently when they did so, the balloting had not yet closed.

JC,




I'm not sure how else to say this, but you are full of shit. Your information and assumptions are wrong. Whoever you are getting it from is wrong and misinformed.

I could easily correct it here but I have a feeling there is no amount of truth or accuracy that would sway you out of your ignorance. You will just believe the things you want to believe because someone who thinks they know something or has an agenda is putting them in your ear. That's unfortunately the country we live in right now. Believe what you want to believe.

[JC Jones]

Im full of shit?