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Tom_Doak

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #125 on: February 08, 2025, 03:32:02 PM »

The architect told me this, he's a pretty good source.


Sam:


Are you a friend of Chet Williams ?

Sam Morrow

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #126 on: February 08, 2025, 03:34:57 PM »

The architect told me this, he's a pretty good source.


Sam:


Are you a friend of Chet Williams ?


I don't know him well enough to call him a friend, I think acquaintance is a better description.

Sean_A

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #127 on: February 08, 2025, 03:46:29 PM »
There were questions about the creeks on The Covey, got confirmation that they are all natural.
We may be having a disagreement on what creek means. I pointed out earlier that anyone can trivially look at aerials of the site from 1995 to 2012 when the main tank is being created. Before that, there are arroyos which again, are everywhere in Texas, but there is only one potential creek that looks like it is could be large enough to carry water continuously, and it's not marked on the Texas waterways maps.

I don't know what else to say. On Google Earth you can see the main tank being built in 2012 with large waterways existing after it that just weren't there before. With the second tank being added in 2017, and extended to add another large waterway in 2022. I have no doubt these were the natural low-lying areas, but this really feels like as "who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes" kind of assertion. You can literally see the treads if heavy machinery in the ground at the site of one of the larger waterways in the 2012 aerial.


Does it matter if the creeks are natural?

When did it become sacrosanct around here that all golf must be as natural as possible, unless…

Ciao
« Last Edit: February 08, 2025, 03:48:08 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2025: Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Ben Sims

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #128 on: February 08, 2025, 03:58:43 PM »
There were questions about the creeks on The Covey, got confirmation that they are all natural.
We may be having a disagreement on what creek means. I pointed out earlier that anyone can trivially look at aerials of the site from 1995 to 2012 when the main tank is being created. Before that, there are arroyos which again, are everywhere in Texas, but there is only one potential creek that looks like it is could be large enough to carry water continuously, and it's not marked on the Texas waterways maps.

I don't know what else to say. On Google Earth you can see the main tank being built in 2012 with large waterways existing after it that just weren't there before. With the second tank being added in 2017, and extended to add another large waterway in 2022. I have no doubt these were the natural low-lying areas, but this really feels like as "who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes" kind of assertion. You can literally see the treads if heavy machinery in the ground at the site of one of the larger waterways in the 2012 aerial.


Does it matter if the creeks are natural?

When did it become sacrosanct around here that all golf must be as natural as possible, unless…

Ciao




Brought a chuckle. Well done.

Sam Morrow

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #129 on: February 08, 2025, 04:44:12 PM »
I'm with yall, I just know there had been questions so figured I'd answer them for Matt.

Matt Schoolfield

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #130 on: February 08, 2025, 07:53:33 PM »
Does it matter if the creeks are natural?
Not to me in the slightest.

Lou_Duran

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #131 on: Today at 01:06:50 PM »
I've not met Chet Williams but for many years, I have greatly enjoyed his original and renovation work in Texas.  Based solely on that work, I think that he may be amongst the most unknown, underrated gca working today.  Off the top of my head, Rock Creek, Summit Rock, Whispering Pines, Houston Oaks, and The Covey are all courses I'd gladly play on a regular basis.


Re: The Covey, I've played all the top Texas courses, most in the consensus top 25 numerous times, and I have no issue with its GD selection.  I have also played the vast majority of GD's top 50, but only one other candidate course in the survey.  Based on the magazine's criteria, I'm good with the result.


As to the aspersions made against GD, I can only say that in my nearly 25 total years as a rater/panelist with three different publications, I've not experienced or observed the bad behavior cited.  I know a number of participants in the ratings for the three major publications (GD, GW, and GOLF) and all seem to take their responsibilities seriously.


Texas golf has always gotten a short shrift on this site.  I think a lot has to do with mostly inferior aesthetics, poor soils, rugged terrain, and often unfavorable climate.  Many here were hoping that with the influx of money and top shelf designers, the PGA courses in Frisco would start to reverse the perception and perhaps get a foot in the door in the "world class" category.  Alas, thus far at least, this has not been the case.  Perhaps The Covey will achieve that recognition.  In addition to Chet's fine work and the superintendents' (plural) care and attention to detail, the club has one other trump card: an owner who enjoys golf and has the understanding, means and desire to make it the very best it can be.     

Andrew Harvie

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #132 on: Today at 01:28:05 PM »
I've not met Chet Williams but for many years, I have greatly enjoyed his original and renovation work in Texas.  Based solely on that work, I think that he may be amongst the most unknown, underrated gca working today.  Off the top of my head, Rock Creek, Summit Rock, Whispering Pines, Houston Oaks, and The Covey are all courses I'd gladly play on a regular basis.


Re: The Covey, I've played all the top Texas courses, most in the consensus top 25 numerous times, and I have no issue with its GD selection.  I have also played the vast majority of GD's top 50, but only one other candidate course in the survey.  Based on the magazine's criteria, I'm good with the result.


As to the aspersions made against GD, I can only say that in my nearly 25 total years as a rater/panelist with three different publications, I've not experienced or observed the bad behavior cited.  I know a number of participants in the ratings for the three major publications (GD, GW, and GOLF) and all seem to take their responsibilities seriously.


Texas golf has always gotten a short shrift on this site.  I think a lot has to do with mostly inferior aesthetics, poor soils, rugged terrain, and often unfavorable climate.  Many here were hoping that with the influx of money and top shelf designers, the PGA courses in Frisco would start to reverse the perception and perhaps get a foot in the door in the "world class" category.  Alas, thus far at least, this has not been the case.  Perhaps The Covey will achieve that recognition.  In addition to Chet's fine work and the superintendents' (plural) care and attention to detail, the club has one other trump card: an owner who enjoys golf and has the understanding, means and desire to make it the very best it can be.   


Texas has gotten a bad rep, but this is a big year for Texas with Childress Hall's two courses, Luling's two courses, Loraloma's one course, etc. It's not necessarily Florida levels of booming development, but it's the second-busiest state for new golf courses. Coming soon!
Managing Partner, Golf Club Atlas

Ira Fishman

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #133 on: Today at 02:01:00 PM »
I've not met Chet Williams but for many years, I have greatly enjoyed his original and renovation work in Texas.  Based solely on that work, I think that he may be amongst the most unknown, underrated gca working today.  Off the top of my head, Rock Creek, Summit Rock, Whispering Pines, Houston Oaks, and The Covey are all courses I'd gladly play on a regular basis.


Re: The Covey, I've played all the top Texas courses, most in the consensus top 25 numerous times, and I have no issue with its GD selection.  I have also played the vast majority of GD's top 50, but only one other candidate course in the survey.  Based on the magazine's criteria, I'm good with the result.


As to the aspersions made against GD, I can only say that in my nearly 25 total years as a rater/panelist with three different publications, I've not experienced or observed the bad behavior cited.  I know a number of participants in the ratings for the three major publications (GD, GW, and GOLF) and all seem to take their responsibilities seriously.


Texas golf has always gotten a short shrift on this site.  I think a lot has to do with mostly inferior aesthetics, poor soils, rugged terrain, and often unfavorable climate.  Many here were hoping that with the influx of money and top shelf designers, the PGA courses in Frisco would start to reverse the perception and perhaps get a foot in the door in the "world class" category.  Alas, thus far at least, this has not been the case.  Perhaps The Covey will achieve that recognition.  In addition to Chet's fine work and the superintendents' (plural) care and attention to detail, the club has one other trump card: an owner who enjoys golf and has the understanding, means and desire to make it the very best it can be.   


Texas has gotten a bad rep, but this is a big year for Texas with Childress Hall's two courses, Luling's two courses, Loraloma's one course, etc. It's not necessarily Florida levels of booming development, but it's the second-busiest state for new golf courses. Coming soon!


Two separate Texas questions:


1. There has not been much word on Red Feather that I have seen. Any views on the course?


2. We have family that recently moved to Houston. What are best public access options? We are glad to drive somewhere for a mini-vacation.


Thanks.

Andrew Harvie

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #134 on: Today at 02:31:49 PM »
I've not met Chet Williams but for many years, I have greatly enjoyed his original and renovation work in Texas.  Based solely on that work, I think that he may be amongst the most unknown, underrated gca working today.  Off the top of my head, Rock Creek, Summit Rock, Whispering Pines, Houston Oaks, and The Covey are all courses I'd gladly play on a regular basis.


Re: The Covey, I've played all the top Texas courses, most in the consensus top 25 numerous times, and I have no issue with its GD selection.  I have also played the vast majority of GD's top 50, but only one other candidate course in the survey.  Based on the magazine's criteria, I'm good with the result.


As to the aspersions made against GD, I can only say that in my nearly 25 total years as a rater/panelist with three different publications, I've not experienced or observed the bad behavior cited.  I know a number of participants in the ratings for the three major publications (GD, GW, and GOLF) and all seem to take their responsibilities seriously.


Texas golf has always gotten a short shrift on this site.  I think a lot has to do with mostly inferior aesthetics, poor soils, rugged terrain, and often unfavorable climate.  Many here were hoping that with the influx of money and top shelf designers, the PGA courses in Frisco would start to reverse the perception and perhaps get a foot in the door in the "world class" category.  Alas, thus far at least, this has not been the case.  Perhaps The Covey will achieve that recognition.  In addition to Chet's fine work and the superintendents' (plural) care and attention to detail, the club has one other trump card: an owner who enjoys golf and has the understanding, means and desire to make it the very best it can be.   


Texas has gotten a bad rep, but this is a big year for Texas with Childress Hall's two courses, Luling's two courses, Loraloma's one course, etc. It's not necessarily Florida levels of booming development, but it's the second-busiest state for new golf courses. Coming soon!


Two separate Texas questions:


1. There has not been much word on Red Feather that I have seen. Any views on the course?


2. We have family that recently moved to Houston. What are best public access options? We are glad to drive somewhere for a mini-vacation.


Thanks.


Good questions on both. I'm organizing a Texas trip right now and hoping to get back to Rawls and Red Feather! I've only played The Woodlands in Texas for a junior event awhile back.
Managing Partner, Golf Club Atlas

Sam Morrow

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #135 on: Today at 02:41:25 PM »
Ira, feel free to PM me about Houston public golf, pretty sure the book I would write would bore everyone!

Mike Nuzzo

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #136 on: Today at 03:08:21 PM »
Ira
Memorial Park
Not sure why Sam would need to write more :)





Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Sam Morrow

Re: Golf Digest Best New
« Reply #137 on: Today at 03:14:27 PM »
Ira
Memorial Park
Not sure why Sam would need to write more :)


Bayou man, Bayou

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