Ranking The Holes Designed for TGL

[Andrew Harvie]

TGL gets underway tonight with a match between New York Golf Club and The Bay Golf Club (whatever that means), and with that, we get to see the holes designed by Beau Welling, Agustín Pizá, and Chad Goetz of Nicklaus Design in action and on the big screen.


Ranking All Thirty Holes Designed for TGL



There's an interesting mix between ostentatious and subdued among the holes designed specifically for this list, but I felt more moved by the over-the-top options, especially because they are only designed to challenge the best players in the world---they don't have to accommodate a variety of skill levels, worry about playability, etc.


29 of the 30 holes are available on TGL's website, so I ranked them from most exciting, to least (in my opinion, of course). I wish they would have gotten way crazier, but alas. This list would also be quite a bit different if I had to play them myself, or if they were built on a golf course that a variety of skill levels enjoy, but they aren't.


One thing I'm surprised they didn't do is have more architects build three or four hole loops... King-Collins, as an example, have shown a flair for the dramatics and could design something random. Tom Doak or Bill Coore, being at the height of the career, if they didn't have limits and could go all out, what would they build? The possibility for a Lido-esque entry contest would have been awesome, too. There's a lot of people who design golf courses for the PGA TOUR games online that could produce something wicked. Either way, it seems this went through the ASGCA as all three are members, but I don't know that for sure and I'm speculating.


Anyway, of the holes designed for TGL, which one is your favourite or least favourite?

[Jason Thurman]

First question, looking at "Sterling": What happens if I hit into that centerline bunker off the tee? As a guy who plays a little bit of simulator golf this time of year, I'm not too proud to tee up a driver when I'm in a virtual bunker. I have to assume that this professional league won't allow that sorta silliness if someone hits it into the trench though.


The Claw is a cool concept, but is it really long enough to make the risk of going for that narrow first finger of fairway worthwhile? I guess some of that will depend on the competitive format, which I know nothing about - hopefully it's a scoring format that offers some incentive for high-risk/high-reward play - that would benefit a lot of these holes.


Agustin Piza is a visionary.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

As it's not meant to be serious golf, I would have liked to see some holes located in an urban area; for example a hole where you need to shape a drive around a tall building or monument. I'd would have also liked to see some exaggerated versions of existing holes; a play on the road hole with sheds, walls, etc. What about a moving green on a par 3?


I think some of the very geometric designs are dull and unimaginative, and lacking strategy. The use of the alternative fairway option is way overused.


Maybe the designs will get more interesting as it progresses.

[Steve Lapper]

First question, looking at "Sterling": What happens if I hit into that centerline bunker off the tee? As a guy who plays a little bit of simulator golf this time of year, I'm not too proud to tee up a driver when I'm in a virtual bunker. I have to assume that this professional league won't allow that sorta silliness if someone hits it into the trench though.


The Claw is a cool concept, but is it really long enough to make the risk of going for that narrow first finger of fairway worthwhile? I guess some of that will depend on the competitive format, which I know nothing about - hopefully it's a scoring format that offers some incentive for high-risk/high-reward play - that would benefit a lot of these holes.


Agustin Piza is a visionary.

 Augie Piza is certainly a visionary. We explored working with him on our golf entertainment business.


 His TGL hole design is absolutely iterative of his Butterfly Design, a concept that amongst other things, allows for dividing parts of a larger course into segmented multi-hole loops. These types of designs aren't particularly cost-efficent to build, but they are unique and visually very attractive.


 Of all the TGL architects, Augie has a portfolio of virtual experience with his past few years of designing for Golf+.

[Bruce Katona]

I, for one, am looking forward to watching tonight, just to see how this idea pans out after waiting a year to kick-off.  There is enough star power and money behind the idea to allow it to gain traction...........and yes, there will be wagering, which will be a driver for attracting a younger audience.

[Kyle Casella]

I considered posting a topic on this last week. I think the idea of being unbound by physical geography is quite interesting when combined with the actual physical playing of the game by real golfers (unlike a video game, which sometimes offers extraphysical abilities). There are a lot of interesting questions here. Do any of these holes offer risk-reward characteristics that are unavailable on a traditional golf course? Is this the equivalent to modernism for golf architecture? Will any trends here spill over at all to physical golf architecture?

[Buck Wolter]

It would be cool if they did an homage to Bud Chapman
 https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/remember-bud-chapman-and-his--infamous-18--holes

[Tom_Doak]

Apologies if I'm not up to speed on this, since I am busy designing actual golf courses, but why are there 30 holes?  I haven't seen any explanation for the number.


Also, wouldn't it have made some more sense for these otherwise pointless "franchises" if the golf holes had been designed based on those locations?  I mean, it wouldn't be very hard to come up with a bunch of ideas for a golf course around New York City.

[Tom_Doak]

It would be cool if they did an homage to Bud Chapman

That's kind of what they are doing.  Just without credit, or royalties!

[Andrew Harvie]

Apologies if I'm not up to speed on this, since I am busy designing actual golf courses, but why are there 30 holes?  I haven't seen any explanation for the number.


Also, wouldn't it have made some more sense for these otherwise pointless "franchises" if the golf holes had been designed based on those locations?  I mean, it wouldn't be very hard to come up with a bunch of ideas for a golf course around New York City.

Who knows. Maybe because in each match, they're playing 15 holes (9 holes of 3 vs 3 alternate shot, 6 holes of head-to-head matchups) and all those numbers fit comfortably into 30? My initial guess was each architect got 10 holes to design, but Beau Welling only did 6 of the known 29.


There's a lot more they could've done with the hole concepts and it feels very mailed in unfortunately, but at least Pizá seemed to show some sense of creativity.

[Greg Hohman]

I mean, it wouldn't be very hard to come up with a bunch of ideas for a golf course around New York City.

I have 18 pics of Central Park that were to be a fake course profile thread about 10+ years ago, decided against it as silly talk, as real as holiday window dressing on Fifth Avenue.

[Phil Burr]

These holes mostly look like Loyal “Bud” Chapman got a job working for Golden Tee.  I’m not watching but I certainly know I would never to pay to be in the arena.

[Ken Fry]

Is Agustin Piza somehow related to Desmond Muirhead???

[Marty Bonnar]

Young Mr Pizá certainly had a very good GCA education!
 

[Matthew Rose]

I certainly thought of Desmond Muirhead more than once.

[Tom_Doak]

I apparently have a different idea of what's "creative" than some of our other esteemed posters here, but I will just let that go.


More importantly -- there has been no discussion of the fact that of the thirty holes they came up with, the majority are par-5's, and the majority of those par-5's are 604 yards long!


I am not surprised by that, but it would be good if the rest of you paid a little bit more attention to what that tells us about tournament golf with modern equipment.


And whether courses of the future will be 9,000 yards long.  [Ironically, 600 x 15 = 9000]

[Tom_Doak]

It would be cool if they did an homage to Bud Chapman
 https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/remember-bud-chapman-and-his--infamous-18--holes

We should actually have a thread discussing the architecture of Bud Chapman's golf holes -- if someone has access to them all.  I think it was more interesting than anything put out by TGL.  Split fairways are for teenagers.

[Peter Sayegh]

More importantly -- there has been no discussion of the fact that of the thirty holes they came up with, the majority are par-5's, and the majority of those par-5's are 604 yards long!

That was the VERY FIRST thought I had and then my second thought crept in....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjkuJPvMrI8


The video is a great reminder that golfers also have certain strengths and must cope with their weaknesses (pre DH BS of course).

[Bruce Katona]

So, I think there are 30 holes as matches are 15 holes (9 team & 6 single).  Each team will likely play some combination of the 30 holes in each of their matches, with some stats generated on how a particular hole has fared v par as the season progresses.


While not each for each hole was my cup of tea, I did enjoy seeing the ideas each designer had & could impelement virtually, versus having to actually build some of these ideas in reality.


Will the telecast get better - yep.  It'll get trimmed down to fit into the 2 hour window (or maybe 90 minutes) with the break between team and singles being the only prolonged break for commercials.


Will the younger generation grasp onto this - I persoanlly think so as the shot clock (best idea yet) keeps things moving.  As mentioned earlier, there are more "rounds" annually on golf simulators than actual 18 rounds - that says something. Having a live audience to cheer & boo the competitors, as in other sports, is a 21st century idea which has its place in this environment.


Once DraftKings/Fanduel/Bet 365 and the other sports wagering sites grasp how to entice their subscribers to wager on these events (which don't compete for PGG/DP/LIV/NFL/Premier League eyeballs as these are weeknight events), this could take a big step forward.


I'm glad there was a group of investors who decided to risk $50 million (construction, prizes, TV rights, etc) to bring our much loved sport into a place where.


Finally, I did watch - it wasn't competitive, which would have been better, but that just leaves room for improvement.


Just my $0.02.   

[Charlie Goerges]

I was disappointed by the designs, considering there should be no real restrictions imposed by reality (beyond realistic physics). I would also have been hoping for more Chapman-esque holes.