OT - "Why Won't Millenials Join Country Clubs?"

[David_Tepper]

This article was written in 2018 for bloomberg.com, but it just surfaced again on one of my feeds.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/why-won-t-millennials-join-country-clubs?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

[Brian Finn]

"Why Won't Millenials Join Country Clubs?"

[Blake Conant]

As a millennial who joined a local country club and subsequently dropped it, I can attest.


A few things at play for us:


1. Neither my spouse nor I grew up as members of a club. Going to a club for meals, or golf, or events wasn’t part of our upbringing.
2. I loved that the club was par 67 and 5800 yards and had some old Victorian features from the early 1900s, but I was not in love with the layout or the walk.
3. We didn’t know anyone there. It was 1/2 mile away from our old house and the value was great, but having to make friends rather than having friends there was a hurdle.


I played there 3-4 times in 2022 but didn’t play at all in 2023. We used the pool a lot but our kids were too young to make pool friends. Just weren’t getting our monies worth.


Will probably consider joining somewhere close to our new house once the boys are of friend-making age, but we may stick to a social membership. No golf course in Omaha appeals to me enough to play there very often and my schedule doesn’t allow the play necessary to justify a golf membership.

[Mark Mammel]

Blake-I haven't played much in Omaha, but when I played Omaha CC I was blown away by the golf course. What a great walk- hilly for sure, but it's Perry Maxwell redo in 1927 is great. Take a look- when the kids are the right age, you might find a home!best
Mark
https://www.omahacc.org/

[Blake Conant]

I like OCC as a golf course, although I wouldn’t want to play it once a week.  Geographically speaking, Omaha is moving southwest and they’re positioned northeast. I’m very curious to see how they do in the next 5-10 years. I know they were offering a lot of the under 40 perks that most clubs offer nowadays.

[Ryan Book]

I've been fortunate to have been hosted at excellent golf clubs by excellent individuals, who are keen to share their insights on the course (and, when I'm lucky, engage in conversation on it). Last year, the main thing that led me to not join the wait for one of several clubs on the north side of Columbus is that I would not necessarily be able to bestow a similar level of pride when hosting, or in general. I'm a bad combination of 1) architecturally snobbish and 2) disinterested in reaching scratch. Playing more would ironically interest me less in such a situation.

The idea of joining a distance membership appeals, but I doubt most have interest in one without a home membership. Maybe the markets slow and the Columbus CC's of the world are in need. We'll see.

I don't think my response really answers the general industry question posed in the header, assuming this is still the trend. Based on the waitlists, this is no longer the trend.

[Edward Glidewell]

Most of them probably can't afford it.


That said, I don't think country clubs are hurting too much right now. There are a lot of long waiting lists.

[Buck Wolter]

I think they are all spending their money at Bandon, Sand Valley, Landmand, etc.


I saw the participation numbers for skiing the other night (+10 million over the last few years) and was blown away -- longer lift lines and higher lift tickets. The whole experience over things seems to be a bigger and bigger thing for the younger generations. As someone who has sort of lived my life that way it kinda sucks; concert tickets, destination golf, skiing, travel is all much more in demand and more expensive than the good old days (sucks but I understand it).


One theory anyway.

[Matt Schoolfield]

This was the top post on the golf subreddit this morning. I think it's relevant:

https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/1hvtkr8/the_mens_grill_room_instant_classic/

When the culture is literally the punchline, then we've probably gotten to the point where we've had a general shift in public perception.

[Brian Finn]

There are some interesting opinions among the 11 pages of comments from the first time David posted this article (Dec 2019), but an awful lot has happened since then, and I think it is fair to say this is no longer true.  When the article was written in July 2018, the club market was very different.  Millennials have joined clubs in fairly large numbers since the pandemic.  Bernie posted a more recent article in the first iteration of this discussion.

From WSJ today

Millennials Are Coming for Your Golf CommunitiesLiving on golf courses has surged in popularity since the pandemic. Many courses have upgraded facilities and broadened amenities. Now the 40-year-olds want in too.
"the NGF has seen a shift toward younger private golf club members on the heels of the pandemic. Since 2019, the number of golfers at private golf clubs has increased by approximately 25%, from just under 1.5 million to 1.9 million, according to the NGF. Adults under the age of 50 comprise 60% of those memberships, with young adults, ages 18 to 34, representing about 30%"
article behind paywall
https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/luxury-homes/millennials-are-coming-for-your-golf-communities-ca42f901?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1

[Andrew Harvie]

My guess is it doesn't make financial sense for most. $1 for a millennial or Gen Z is about the same as 74 cents for Boomers at the same age. Less disposable income, less ability to join golf courses.

That, and people in those demographics wanting experiences over nearly anything else: rather than joining a club in town, they take that money that would be their yearly dues and go with 15 friends to Cabot or Bandon or Barnbougle.

It's a good question, though. Private clubs might be riding the wave of the COVID influx currently because a lot of millennials did join private clubs during that time, but I suspect good GM's are already looking ahead to what they might have to do when this becomes a problem again once the economy turns.

[Matt Kardash]

How many people honestly have the money and time to join a club? I do pretty well for myself, probably in the top 10% of earners, but between work and family there isn't much time for golf. I also can think of better things to do with 5-10k every year. Hard to justify that kind of spending.

[Rob Marshall]

Wonder why all the waiting lists then?

[Carl Johnson]

My Charlotte golf club has a long wait list and just took in 50+ members (to put us at 500) for pretty big bucks.  Now, I do not know the ages of most of the new ones, but from what I can deduce they include plenty of millennials.  Why 50+ at one time?  Huge assessment caused dropouts.

[Ben Sims]

My Charlotte golf club has a long wait list and just took in 50+ members (to put us at 500) for pretty big bucks.  Now, I do not know the ages of most of the new ones, but from what I can deduce they include plenty of millennials.  Why 50+ at one time?  Huge assessment caused dropouts.

Just out of curiosity, how much was the assessment in comparison to the current  initiation fee?

[David_Tepper]

The next "wave" to worry about is the baby boomer golf club members (currently ages 70 to 90) departing the golf scene over the next 5 to 20 years. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the membership is over 70 at most golf clubs. 

[Chris Hughes]

The article linked is laughable, pretty much wrong on every count.

The premise that "millennials won't join clubs" is ludicrous...they are doing so at an incredible clip.

Cost, lack of access, and limited supply could limit participation, but demand by that demo if off the charts.

[Carl Johnson]

My Charlotte golf club has a long wait list and just took in 50+ members (to put us at 500) for pretty big bucks.  Now, I do not know the ages of most of the new ones, but from what I can deduce they include plenty of millennials.  Why 50+ at one time?  Huge assessment caused dropouts.

Just out of curiosity, how much was the assessment in comparison to the current  initiation fee?

For a regular adult member the assessment was about 47% of the full adult initiation fee immediately prior to the assessment, but in conjunction with the assessment the initiation fee was also raised 62.5%.  Others will correct me if I have misremembered.  (However, the assessment was reduced for members 65+, 70+ and 75+.  At my ripe old age I only paid 8.75% of the prior initiation fee.  Very generous to older members.)  Note that I said "golf" club, not "country" club. Some would argue that the increases, with related club "improvements," were to reposition the club as a country club, while others would vehemently disagree.  There are always disagreements about such things, are there not?

[Ben Sims]

My Charlotte golf club has a long wait list and just took in 50+ members (to put us at 500) for pretty big bucks.  Now, I do not know the ages of most of the new ones, but from what I can deduce they include plenty of millennials.  Why 50+ at one time?  Huge assessment caused dropouts.

Just out of curiosity, how much was the assessment in comparison to the current  initiation fee?

For a regular adult member the assessment was about 47% of the full adult initiation fee immediately prior to the assessment, but in conjunction with the assessment the initiation fee was also raised 62.5%.  Others will correct me if I have misremembered.  (However, the assessment was reduced for members 65+, 70+ and 75+.  At my ripe old age I only paid 8.75% of the prior initiation fee.  Very generous to older members.)  Note that I said "golf" club, not "country" club. Some would argue that the increases, with related club "improvements," were to reposition the club as a country club, while others would vehemently disagree.  There are always disagreements about such things, are there not?

Always, yes. That’s a point worth remembering. I won’t pretend to know the situation or any information that was passed along to members. Clubs can do what they want.


That said, it’s no secret how assessments have been used by many clubs in the past. It isn’t just about raising funds.


Thanks for your post Carl.

[Daryl David]

This was the top post on the golf subreddit this morning. I think it's relevant:

https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/1hvtkr8/the_mens_grill_room_instant_classic/

When the culture is literally the punchline, then we've probably gotten to the point where we've had a general shift in public perception.

Relevant, no. Stupid, yes.

[Chris Hughes]

My Charlotte golf club has a long wait list and just took in 50+ members (to put us at 500) for pretty big bucks.  Now, I do not know the ages of most of the new ones, but from what I can deduce they include plenty of millennials.  Why 50+ at one time?  Huge assessment caused dropouts.

Just out of curiosity, how much was the assessment in comparison to the current  initiation fee?

For a regular adult member the assessment was about 47% of the full adult initiation fee immediately prior to the assessment, but in conjunction with the assessment the initiation fee was also raised 62.5%.  Others will correct me if I have misremembered.  (However, the assessment was reduced for members 65+, 70+ and 75+.  At my ripe old age I only paid 8.75% of the prior initiation fee.  Very generous to older members.)  Note that I said "golf" club, not "country" club. Some would argue that the increases, with related club "improvements," were to reposition the club as a country club, while others would vehemently disagree.  There are always disagreements about such things, are there not?

Always, yes. That’s a point worth remembering. I won’t pretend to know the situation or any information that was passed along to members. Clubs can do what they want.

True...and there are consequences for doing so.

That said, it’s no secret how assessments have been used by many clubs in the past. It isn’t just about raising funds.

Curious what you mean here?

Thanks for your post Carl.