Why the Plantation Course is so much fun

[archie_struthers]

 


Early morning here in FLA and I just watched the highlights of the Sentry in Hawaii at the Plantation Course in Maui and its a hoot! Gonna keep that mindset tomorrow when we play our Monday points game. Im shot 62 and didn't make up any ground on Morikawa and Matsuyama .  Eleven under good but not enough,  .   Lots of options on the ground here and it's Coore and Crenshaws' first collaboration if I'm not mistaken.  Lots of really great stuff  followed but you can see the imagination and flair in the design. Played it once and can't wait to try it again.

[Mike Bodo]

Early morning here in FLA and I just watched the highlights of the Sentry in Hawaii at the Plantation Course in Maui and its a hoot! Gonna keep that mindset tomorrow when we play our Monday points game. Im shot 62 and didn't make up any ground on Morikawa and Matsuyama .  Eleven under good but not enough,  .   Lots of options on the ground here and it's Coore and Crenshaws' first collaboration if I'm not mistaken.  Lots of really great stuff  followed but you can see the imagination and flair in the design. Played it once and can't wait to try it again.

I played the Plantation course in 2018 and had a blast doing so. In fact, I have a photo I took of the par 3 8th as the desktop backgound image on my laptop. Lot's of room to play but you need to be careful where you miss - particularly around some of the greens. I'll never forget hitting my drive on the 17th and marveling at the amount of run I got. Had to have been 100 yds. It was crazy, but definitely worth playing.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have played the Plantation half a dozen times. I think the routing is just short of brilliant. The downhill holes are REALLY downhill. The uphill holes are a bit gentler. The par threes and par fives are gems. It has some very difficult holes and some holes where you look for birdie.  I look forward to playing it every time I am on Maui.

[Colin Sheehan]

How walkable is it?

What percent of rounds do people walk?

Do pros get shuttled for any portions of the round during the event?

It looks like about 10,600 yards to walk the course from the back tees using the mandatory paths and walking everything else on a "Hogan" line.

[Tommy Williamsen]

How walkable is it?

What percent of rounds do people walk?

Do pros get shuttled for any portions of the round during the event?

It looks like about 10,600 yards to walk the course from the back tees using the mandatory paths and walking everything else on a "Hogan" line.

I walked it once when I was younger. They had a couple of shuttles. I didn't need to walk it again.

[Steve Lapper]

How walkable is it?

What percent of rounds do people walk?

Do pros get shuttled for any portions of the round during the event?

It looks like about 10,600 yards to walk the course from the back tees using the mandatory paths and walking everything else on a "Hogan" line.

Colin,


Although a few hole stretches are walkable, it isn't concussive to walking. Too many ups and downs from greens to tee's and around ravines and hills to make it walking friendly.


I imagine less than 10% walk it. I've played it multiple times and never seen anyone out there walking.


Yes, the pros are shuttled multiple times.


It is a hoof...on any line.

[Ryan Book]

I did a numbers game over the summer where I tracked the variation in par length at various courses to determine how much it impacts enjoyment / ratings. In short, that statistic didn't correlate to a ratings boost. If it had, Kapalua Plantation might well be the most popular course in the country. No doubt due to the referenced uphills and downhills, the average par four at Plantation is 70.412 yards longer/shorter than the median par four at the course, measured as if the player was shooting from tees that total 6,100 yards. The next greatest variation in par four length I saw was at Streamsong Red, where the same data point was about 56 yards.

The point is that the variation in par four length at Kapalua is extreme and that may affect its memorability in a positive way.

[Phil Burr]

I’ve played Plantation 3-4 times and love it!  It challenges imagination like nowhere else in the continental US.  I’ve putted successfully from 40 yards short of #18 green when even the best wedge would have sent the ball racing off the far side of the green.  I’ve hit an 8 iron second shot from 70 yards to #10 into a howling wind.  I’ve driven #12 with 3 wood downwind and turned around on #13 (five yards shorter) and pounded driver/5 iron to the front edge.  The terrain and weather (too bad the pros never see any) are unlike any other in America.  It’s crappy land for golf but Coore & Crenshaw created a great golf course because they didn’t force anything.  Similar to Talking Stick North: another crappy piece of land from which they coaxed a great golf course because they didn’t force anything.  I’d make Plantation my first stop on Maui as well.  It’s too bad I can’t think of a single other thing I’d like to do on the island.

[Kalen Braley]

I did a quick measurement on google earth.

Assuming you hit it down the middle on every hole, with little to no side to side stuff, it would be just over 6 miles (6.1)....including 1.5 miles of transition walks from green to tee.  (5 green to 6 tee is the longest at just shy of 1/2 mile)

Throw in the uphill and downhill aspect of the course, I'm guessing it'd be a tough trek...

[Bruce Katona]

When I played I walked from tee-green and where some of the next are close to the preceeding green.........hopped in the cart on the longer distances between holes.


The elevation change is pretty significant.  #17 & #18 were a hoot to play -even I got them out close to 300 off the tee.

[Rob Marshall]

The views are second to none. Can’t remember the hole but it was one of the downhill par 4’s on the front. The green also ran from front to back. I wrote a letter to Ben Crenshaw asking why in the world would you have a down hill approach to a green that ran away from you. Came home from work one day and my wife says you got a letter from Ben Crenshaw. Wrote me a nice letter explaining why. Class act.

[Pete Lavallee]

Care to share Bens’s explanation?

[mike_beene]

I remember the walk from 8 tee to 8 green taking forever. 9 to 10 is a pretty good trek also. I have mostly taken a cart, but I do remember a shuttle from 5 to 6. I once asked Crenshaw about the carry if the 6 tee was by 5 green. Too far.

[Jeff Schley]

The views are second to none. Can’t remember the hole but it was one of the downhill par 4’s on the front. The green also ran from front to back. I wrote a letter to Ben Crenshaw asking why in the world would you have a down hill approach to a green that ran away from you. Came home from work one day and my wife says you got a letter from Ben Crenshaw. Wrote me a nice letter explaining why. Class act.

That is really cool Rob, yet another chapter in "Class" by Ben Crenshaw.

[Rob Marshall]

Care to share Bens’s explanation?

Sure, the letter is back in NY but the basic answer was that if the green tilted from back to front it wouldn't look natural. It would look like a back stop. The frustrating part for me was the pin was in the front. I hit what I thought was a good shot landing short but it released to the back of the green. Ben also wrote that the front pin wasn't meant to be used very often.


The approach was also down grain. Back 30 years ago when this happened down grain ran 12 and into the grain was about a 6. The long putt coming back was no fun. Thats all changed with the new grasses.

[Brian Finn]

I played the Plantation for the first time this past summer, and really loved it.  If I am being honest, the scenery is what I will remember most, but I don't consider that any slight to the course design.  The constant views of the sea and Molokai are among the best backdrops in the world. In terms of actual design, I thought the variety was really impressive, utilizing different combinations of distance, uphill/downhill, with/against prevailing winds (or at least taking into account the seasonal wind patterns).  I was going to ask why the routing would be considered great (or even good), but in the process of drafting this response, I thought about the severity of the land, the changing winds, and quality of the golf holes, and think I have a sense for it.  On first impression, it seems a poor routing, due to the long transitions and disconnects, but considering what C&C had to work with, it is incredible that they could build 18 very good holes and piece them together in a remotely cohesive fashion.  Along the lines of rating the site quality vs. final result quality.  Is that it, or is there more to it? 

[Kalen Braley]

I remember the walk from 8 tee to 8 green taking forever. 9 to 10 is a pretty good trek also. I have mostly taken a cart, but I do remember a shuttle from 5 to 6. I once asked Crenshaw about the carry if the 6 tee was by 5 green. Too far.

Interesting but yes.  If you put a tee just uphill from 5 green, it'd be a ~320 yard carry over the canyon/gorge to the closest part of 6 fairway.  But if you put one west of 5 green, the carry is only 245, easy for these guys...Perhaps a tee could be installed for The Sentry! 

[Phil Burr]

Kalen, the tee you mention to the west of #5 green is intriguing.  I don’t know the geometry but could a tee shot aimed at the longest carry distance catch the steep slope and trundle all the way to the green?  That could be fun!  A left to right Cape.  I don’t think it mitigates the walkability issue though.  That canyon is huge & deep and I don’t want to think about what lives there!  I think they’d still rely on cart transfers to #6 fairway.

[Jeff Evagues]

Mark Rolfing said years ago they really tried to put a tee across the gorge behind the 5th green but if the wind was coming the opposite direction (a kona wind like on Sunday) it would have been impossible to play.

[mike_beene]

At least there are no snakes in Hawaii! But those Cane spiders are a bit creepy.

[Mark_Fine]

Archie,
You are on Maui in one of the most beautiful spots in the world playing golf.  My grandmother could have laid out a course on that site and it would be fun to play 


I still travel to Hawaii usually once a year and have played The Plantation Course many times.  It’s a C&C, you know it will be well designed.  Actually the most interesting “hazard” which you have to deal with throughout the golf course is not the bunkers, or the barankas or the greens,…, it is the views.  You are constantly distracted from your game staring at them! 


Unless you want 40,000 steps you probably don’t want to attempt to walk it.  There are shuttles but it is a beast with all the hills.  It sits on well over 300 acres.  I think the only one sitting on more is Nanea which I also love.  That one is Sand Hills in a lava flow 

[Jeff Schley]

Archie,
You are on Maui in one of the most beautiful spots in the world playing golf.  My grandmother could have laid out a course on that site and it would be fun to play 


I still travel to Hawaii usually once a year and have played The Plantation Course many times.  It’s a C&C, you know it will be well designed.  Actually the most interesting “hazard” which you have to deal with throughout the golf course is not the bunkers, or the barankas or the greens,…, it is the views.  You are constantly distracted from your game staring at them! 


Unless you want 40,000 steps you probably don’t want to attempt to walk it.  There are shuttles but it is a beast with all the hills.  It sits on well over 300 acres.  I think the only one sitting on more is Nanea which I also love.  That one is Sand Hills in a lava flow 

Almost as happy cartballing there as a 90 degree day at Kawana Fuji. 

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, the tee you mention to the west of #5 green is intriguing.  I don’t know the geometry but could a tee shot aimed at the longest carry distance catch the steep slope and trundle all the way to the green?  That could be fun!  A left to right Cape.  I don’t think it mitigates the walkability issue though.  That canyon is huge & deep and I don’t want to think about what lives there!  I think they’d still rely on cart transfers to #6 fairway.

Phil,

That certainly appears to be the case.  I looked at it again and it would be an approx. 310 yard drive to find that big slope in the fairway to roll down to the green.  Then the cart ride would be even nicer, get on at 5 green, drive all the way to 6 green! 

[Ira Fishman]

I am in the minority. The views were of course out of this world, but I thought the course was a bit of a slog up the hill even in a cart. I thought there were only a few really good golf holes (1, 5, 12, and 17), and too many not particularly good ones. And I am a big C&C fan.

[Jerry Kluger]

It is a resort course with immensely wide fairways and for it to be any sort of a challenge to the best players it needs at least 20 mph winds which they did not have during the tournament.  The next few courses are also birdie fests which will not make for exciting golf so not much different from playing into a simulator.