Architects, in what ways have you improved the most over your career?

[Charlie Goerges]

I’m curious how much of your improvement is purely your personal, architectural “chops” versus your organizational improvement (including your organization ability, but also the organization that you’ve built and run during a job even if it’s only temporary per each job).

This question is partially prompted by the trope I’ve encountered when reading about racing drivers, who often say that they were never faster than their early years, even if they won more races toward the middle or end of their careers (whether because they got better organizations around them or they learned to be smarter politically etc).

I hope that makes sense, I’m just curious how you conceive of yourselves and how improvement works in architecture.

[Tom_Doak]

Charlie:


I have said it here before, that my philosophy of design and my ideas have not changed so much over the past thirty years.  When I look back at what I wrote in the ANATOMY OF A GOLF COURSE, I am sometimes surprised to see things in there, that I thought I didn't come up with until later on.


But I think I am better [or at least faster] at routing golf courses through years of practice and repetition.  And I am certainly WAY better at executing my ideas on the ground, thanks to attracting [and training] a great team of people to help me.  I also think I've gotten better at the skill of working with them -- mostly, at explaining gently to them when I don't want to use their idea, or why I'm modifying it.


It is generally accepted wisdom that people get more conservative as they get older and have more to lose [reputation, market share, whatever].  And that is compounded in golf course design by the fact that greens keep getting faster, so even if you want to live on the edge, that means using softer slopes now than in 2005 and certainly 1985.


I'm not sure I've gotten more conservative, though.  I have always positioned myself as a rebel [and as a leader] and it is easier than ever to get away with that when I want to.  Indeed, I kind of feel a responsibility now to push the envelope on my last few projects.  Especially if I'm pushing in different directions than what the next generation are doing.  At this point, it's kind of radical to think about building a golf course that's SMALLER.

[Ian Andrew]

I know you would prefer a fancy answer related to what we do or how we run our businesses. But being 100% honest, it's paying attention to my health. It began with 20 years of cognitive therapy to gain enough self-control to have a somewhat normal existence. Along that path, I left my job with an architecture firm. I did that to control my own schedule and manage my life. I was in a pretty nasty spiral. Built a business. Only took on what I had time for. Learnt to travel wiser. Walked even more. Eat much better. At 50: left panels, societies, associations, dropped memberships, and got back to the things that made me the most happy. Not a sexy answer about architectural technique, business, insights, or cool and clever design insights. But it's a honest answer.

[Joe Hancock]

Ian,


Thank You.


Joe

[cary lichtenstein]

I know you would prefer a fancy answer related to what we do or how we run our businesses. But being 100% honest, it's paying attention to my health. It began with 20 years of cognitive therapy to gain enough self-control to have a somewhat normal existence. Along that path, I left my job with an architecture firm. I did that to control my own schedule and manage my life. I was in a pretty nasty spiral. Built a business. Only took on what I had time for. Learnt to travel wiser. Walked even more. Eat much better. At 50: left panels, societies, associations, dropped memberships, and got back to the things that made me the most happy. Not a sexy answer about architectural technique, business, insights, or cool and clever design insights. But it's a honest answer.

Smart, very Smart

[Mike Nuzzo]

Hi Charlie
I don't know exactly how much better I am at this, but trusting myself and who I am working with has certainly improved.
A golf course has many other invested parties that impact the designer's ability and role and they do not all have the same goal.


Tom and Ian created great structures they could trust including with their clients.
They are both far more experienced in years and the number of projects in their expertise and who and how they trust.


I won't know how good I am becoming until more of my vision is realized and surpassed on each project.
Artists and racers (cars and horses) have the benefit of far more executions.
I mention horse racing because I feel a little more like Seabiscuit.


Peace

[Jeff_Brauer]

Interesting question, and even having thought about it over the New Year, I'm not sure I can answer.  For that matter, is it the gca who should answer?


I will say that after Sand Hills opened, at a dinner full of architects, many (including myself, who had only been in biz for myself a few years) admitted that they didn't think they could do a Sand Hills.  So, they recognized what they didn't know.  I presume everyone got a little better studying that (and other great courses.)


I think I got faster making decisions.  I was visiting a course under construction just last month.  The on site guys said that they take trees out in three steps to make sure they get it right.  Over the years, I would just draw and then flag clearing right to the outer limits.  Occasionally, if a tree were near the edge I would save it just in case.  Similarly, I have found specimen trees that reconfigured my entire clearing line from tee to green, essentially putting "innies" where the "outies" had been planned and vice versa.


That might have been a product of one of my first courses near Atlanta.  I was flagging one side of a fw and he was flagging the other.  I must say, I knew what I was doing when I took the "high side" and gave him the "low side" down near the creek.  He called out a few times to say he had found a specimen and wanted me to wade through the low area, filled with rose bushes, to take a look.  None of those made the cut, but my arms, legs, face, etc. were all cut, lol.  This particular tree was nice (but their were others) but it was on the inside of the dogleg and would have changed the tee shot direction.


I suppose any of us could take you through a string of incidences where we learned something, but it would probably bore the snot out of even the architect writing it......

[Charlie Goerges]

Thanks so much for the thoughtful responses so far guys, I think we all appreciate it. It's a little window into what you do and how you think about things, that's all we can ask. Feel free to add more if you like.

[JC Urbina]

Charlie,


I rarely post on topics like this or even rarely post at all unless something strikes me or someone mentions a thread that I might be interested in.


This one is important to me.


PEOPLE


In my 40 plus years of designing and building golf courses I have come to appreciate the people around me more than ever.  They have helped me improve in everything I do.


Tops on my list of V.I.P,  are shapers, they are the life blood of the process and for me someone who I can always share an opinion, seek and idea from, enjoy the importance of the process of the days, weeks and months of work that goes into these projects.  They are people I break bread with, have personal relationships with and even debate the everyday life we all experience.


They are too ( Shaper- design associates)  many to mention but I will tell you, going to see what a Joe Hancock is doing even though he may not be helping me create cool ideas on the golf course I am working on  is always a treat.  I regularly stop in when Joe is working in the same town as I am to see what he is stirring up.  While working in Minn last summer spending an evening with Joe and  James Duncan at dinner while they were working on a golf course down the road from me was special.  Sharing experiences, discussing trials and tribulations and most importantly checking on the welfare of each of them was as important as what I did during the day at WBYC.  For me the people have always been more important than the adulations.  Discussing with the labor crews what they are working on, guys raking and shoveling, doing the detail work, construction crews sweating it out on the hottest days.  working together  to get the job done, a priceless feeling.  Jeff Stein and others who have helped me shape golf courses keep me engaged and rightfully deserve to be their own design firm.  Ramon, Javier and many others who have shaped  carefully with a blade or bucket have constantly reminded  me of the importance of the team. Watching Riley Johns and his team design build golf  courses in Canada is amazing, his technique and approach to his work is worth the watch,  standing to the side of a hole being shaped or sitting on the bench of a utility cart is a front row seat to a symphony of people working to create features in the dirt.  He and his team are some of the best.  Always a smile,  a laugh which in our business of very important.


Second on my list of V.I.P. and probably  share the same top billing are the superintendents who care for the course. Without them I am nothing.  This past year 2024 I had the chance to work  with Justin Mandon, Pasatiempo- Jared Kalina, White Bear Yacht Club, Cody Boutte , Loblolly, Mark Miedler, Essex Fells, CJ Penrose, Sankaty Head, Mike Manthey, Midland Hills, Troy Flanagan and Jared Kief at Olympic Club. Thom Irvin, Claremont C.C.  Each of them are true professional  and the reason I look forward to visiting each one of those clubs,  Without them the golf course has no chance of succeeding in both agronomic and architectural value.


They offer support to me for which there can be no price tag attached to that.  We share a common denominator , love of both the golf course and the architect of record.  Long days, sleepless nights, always working to make each day better and every bunker, green, tee and mowing line perfect in every way.


Last but not least are the Club Presidents, Owners, Greens Committees, GM's  who I get  to interact with. I have learned that even though we may disagree on ideas and the process we generally  want the same things for the golf course, I guess I am lucky I get to hang out with really cool people. 


People, have improved every aspect of what I do.  I think about the people who I will interact with when I arrive, One more plane flight, one more hotel room, one more rental car, all worth the 40 plus years I have been doing my job, because of the moment I  step on the golf course,  I say Hi to a Justin, or a Riley or a maintenance staff person, they all have made it better for me.


For all of you who I have had a chance to interact with on the golf course ,  know this,  I enjoy every minute, and for those who I will get to meet in the future , I can not wait.


 
I wish I could take a team picture with all of them.

[Mark_Fine]

Some very thoughtful posts. Thanks to all.  I learned some new things just reading them! 

When I decided to work in this field I knew I had a lot to learn.  I knew it would not be easy but if it was I probably would have done something else.  Luckily I had a few strong supporters to provide guidance and encouragement. One thing I knew at the start from past working experiences was how important it is to always surround yourself with good people, especially people who know different things than you, who have and are willing to share different views and perspectives and who are happy to work as a team.  Jim Urbina in his post alluded to the importance of all the people an architect needs to work with and rely on to be successful.  Without the people I have had to work with and support me (too many to list here) I would have given up on this long ago. That said, one of the best pieces of advice that took me longer than it should have to learn and follow was from Jim Engh who told me, “It is a very tough business to get into but just remember to have fun with it”.   Having fun was easier said than done at the start but I always remembered that conversation with him.  As time passed I learned it is impossible to please everyone (I should have known that right away but I didn’t) and that there are so many things beyond your control, and sometimes clients have hidden or at least different agendas, and that the need for patience is absolutely critical, and thick skin is a necessity, and perseverance is essential,…, I eventually learned to have fun, give it my best and be satisfied with whatever it was that we accomplished. 

Before doing this, I never really appreciated just how many people are involved in designing/building/restoring/renovating a golf course. When you see the name of an architect on a scorecard, please recognize there should be countless other names right next to it as without that team of people there would be no course to play and talk about.That may be what I learned the most. And in the process of being part of these teams, I am trying harder to make sure I have fun with it

[JC Urbina]

Just Another Thought.


While working for Pete Dye, I cannot tell you how many times he leaned on my shoulder with one hand or sat in the dirt trying to convey his ideas to me with his dirt models. C


I always  knew never to get to bold with my suggestions, or I would get the  "HOLD THE PHONE" shout out from Pete, that was lingo for Shut Up      Always treated me way more important than a piece off design paper.


I would not tell someone today to Hold The Phone, Pete Lingo, but always remembered the people were the most important thing



I try to be a happy go lucky guy, these jobs are hard enough












 

[Charlie Goerges]

Thanks for the additional responses guys, they are illuminating. I'm just going to bump it to see if anyone else would like to reply. You don't need to be a head architect to talk about this, I think we're all happy to hear from all levels and anywhere!