Is the lack of iconic holes in modern golf architecture a concern?

[Mike Bodo]

I’m sorry, but I think this is a ridiculous question. How can something new possibly be an icon?

Adam, define "new." Bandon's been around over 25 yrs. Whistling Straits the same. How long is long enough for courses built around this time period or even the early 2000's to form consensus on what great game-defining holes they have?


Whistling straits was built along lake Michigan. Yet, you could argue it has no hole that rivals the 17th at Pebble for challenge, beauty and drama, let alone the 7th. Yet, it's a great golf course in its own right. Again, I'll go back to my comment regarding TPC Sawgrass. The 17th was lauded as an iconic hole before any professional had ever played a shot to it. There hasn't been a course designed since that has received such accolades for a single round defining hole.

In 50 yrs. will the golf architecture community or golf community in general speak about any holes on Whistling Straits, Bandon, Sand Valley, Streamsong, etc. with the same reverance we do now with Pebble Beach, ANGC and other golden age courses? I suppose only time will tell.

[Mike Bodo]

Iconic holes, I think, kind of need to consensus of a community, and as golf gets more niche, I think that becomes harder, even as the courses get better for their respective audiences.

This should translate to more holes that appeal to a specific demo, and fewer holes trying to please more people, which makes it harder to make one hole stand out.

It’s a theory anyway.

Well said, but I'd argue certain holes and will always attract a broader cross-section of golfers to them. I mean, I'd pay a King's ransom to get on Riviera just so I could play holes 6, 10 and 18.

[Jason Thurman]

Let's settle this like men. What are the 9 (and 18) most iconic holes of each 30 year period from today back to 1875? And how does each set compare?

• 1875-1905
• 1905-1935
• 1935-1965
• 1965-1995
• 1995-2025

[Ronald Montesano]

"Whistling straits was built along lake Michigan. Yet, you could argue it has no hole that rivals the 17th at Pebble for challenge, beauty and drama, let alone the 7th."

Mike, have you played Whistling Straits? I have. On a clear, sunny day, those holes along the water are more than the equal of the ridiculous hourglass of the 17th at Pebble, and give the OG 7th (the one with all the surrounding sand) a run for its money.

The two holes at Pebble that you cite are not great holes, that benefit from God's hand, and are the only reason we are discussing them. In contrast, there are iconic holes in ugly locales, that you've planted orange cones around, and detoured.

I think, at this juncture, that your initial question has been shown to be flawed, and that additional attempts at supporting the flawed question, are wasted time and space.

[Jason Thurman]

For starters:
1875-1905

• Probably like 3 at Myopia or something, right? Not my era of expertise...

1905-1935

• 12 Augusta National... 13 too but the whole course is a special case
• 8 Pebble Beach and another 6 holes out there if you really want them
• Cypress 16
• 5 Pinehurst No 2
• 18 Merion
• Winged Foot 10
• 7 Lawsonia
• Pine Valley 5 or 7 or 1 or 2 or 10 or 13

1935-1965

• Spyglass 4
• 7 Old Town Club
• 8 Prairie Dunes
• 12 Prairie Dunes

1965-1995

• Sawgrass 17
• Harbour Town 13
• Shoal Creek 6
• Muirfield Village 14
• Kiawah Ocean 17
• The RTJ Trail hole with the tee way up above that river valley. 1 at the Judge?
• Old 17 at Cabo Del Sol, rest its soul

1995-2025

• 1 Sand Hills
• 16 Bandon Dunes
• Whistling Straits 17
• Is this the era to which we attribute the Channel Hole?
• Bandon Trails 14
• Pacific Dunes 13
• Landmand 17
• Kingsley 2
• Tobacco Road 11 (13?)
• Sweetens Cove 5

This is not a remotely comprehensive list so I'll withhold further comment until more refined. But I don't immediately see a concerning shortage of iconographic holes in this modern era.

[Tim_Weiman]

Jason,


Perhaps I have reason to be biased, but how does your 1995-2025 list not include Barnbougle #7?


IMO, it may be the most iconic of them all.

[Tom_Doak]

I would say 90%+ of what are generally considered iconic holes are because of tv coverage. Pine Valley may be the exception but it’s the perennial #1 course in the world and even still, most golfers outside of places such as this would be hard pressed to describe a single hole.

I feel like this thread has gone on pretty long since it was answered succinctly in post #3.


Augusta, Riviera and Pebble Beach all have iconic holes partly because they have all been on TV every year since I was born.  [And, for that matter, the 17th at the TPC Sawgrass has now been on TV 43 times.]


Unfortunately, there aren't more holes like that because the PGA Tour doesn't choose great new golf courses for their annual events, so there is no other modern course that's any good that is getting that kind of exposure.  Case in point:  the next most iconic modern hole might be the 16th at the TPC at Scottsdale.