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Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« on: January 02, 2025, 06:16:47 PM »
Today a close friend who is into yoga and meditation shared this with me, and I thought it was interesting enough to pass along.

The lecture is on youtube here: https://youtu.be/zZhMkf7Zs20?si=GljA5NQrPXzQ96hT

This is the summary from the page:

Quote
In this unique recording from 1995, Ram Dass talks to the Shivas Irons Society about the mystical nature of golf and how he’s using the game as a practice to become more conscious.

This episode of Here and Now is from a talk Ram Dass gave to the Shivas Irons Society at Stanford University in August 1995.

Ram Dass shares why he decided to take up the game of golf and how it helped him work out some old anxieties around the process of learning a new skill.

Ram Dass talks about how his concentration practices and cultivation of the Witness allow him to connect to the mystical nature of golf. He explores not being attached to being the actor or to the fruits of an action. Are you being the golfer or are you playing golf?

Finally, Ram Dass shares how he’s using the game of golf as a practice to become more conscious and develop qualities such as equanimity and joy in the moment. We can live our storylines, which means picking the right club for the next shot, while simultaneously having a free awareness that delights in the timelessness of each moment.

Also relevant is the host, the Shivas Irons Society, which I'm sure most here are familiar with, but for those who don't know:

Quote
The Shivas Irons Society supports those on the path of mastery, in golf and life, through educational programs, golf events, and fostering a community of like-minded individuals around the world. We see golf as an opportunity for personal growth and we gather to support each other in becoming a higher version of ourselves.

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2025, 07:23:47 PM »
You might also like Arnauld Haultain’s book The Mystery of Golf.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Simon Barrington

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2025, 06:20:34 AM »
You might also like Arnauld Haultain’s book The Mystery of Golf.
A good listen on that subject is "The Duffer's Literary Companion" Podcast reviewing that unique book:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2zk0Hc7xeyNIIB139cmvXV?si=SNnQq966ThOW4Kb0B-Kp5Q

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2025, 08:40:36 AM »
Gunga galunga… gunga, gunga-lagunga
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2025, 09:09:21 AM »
Gunga galunga… gunga, gunga-lagunga




I should honestly say that while I own both Golf in the Kingdom and The Mystery of Golf, I was not able to finish either one. I got most of the way through Kingdom, but only several pages into Mystery. Take from that what you will!
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2025, 10:18:59 AM »
Unfortunately, golf has lost its mystical hold on me. I think it is because I don't go out at dusk, carry my bag, and just enjoy the thrill of hitting a golf ball. If I play towards evening, I am in a cart racing around in an hour.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2025, 11:14:51 AM »
The mystical is all I have left... ;D


I enjoy the feel of a well struck iron, or a high, long draw off the tee.  And being on the course feels like stepping into another world where order and perfection collides with chaos and the wild and I am simply passing through on my way back to the parking lot.

Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2025, 12:17:39 PM »
What is so "mystical" about someone telling ME how I (should) feel on a golf course or how the experience should affect people?

The video link is very static and I'm thankful for that because I would not have watched it to its conclusion.

I'm confident most posters on GCA would NOT describe playing/enjoying golf as "mystical."




Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2025, 01:26:18 PM »
What is so "mystical" about someone telling ME how I (should) feel on a golf course or how the experience should affect people?

The video link is very static and I'm thankful for that because I would not have watched it to its conclusion.

I'm confident most posters on GCA would NOT describe playing/enjoying golf as "mystical."




Mystical might not be the best possible word in this case for all of us because of its religious implications. Maybe deeply personal or emotional would be better. A lot of people in the non-religious community use the term numinous (despite it's dictionary definition being basically "mystical/religious") to refer to meaningful or emotional experiences of that type.


That said, it's probably less any of those things for me than it is a flow-state. I've never gelled with those quasi-religious golf texts, but I feel more than I do with my other hobbies and interests. It's a bit of a liminal space for me.



Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2025, 03:41:23 PM »
What is so "mystical" about someone telling ME how I (should) feel on a golf course or how the experience should affect people?

The video link is very static and I'm thankful for that because I would not have watched it to its conclusion.

I'm confident most posters on GCA would NOT describe playing/enjoying golf as "mystical."


By contrast, I really enjoyed the link -- it's been a long time since I actually listened to a whole podcast.


While I would not have thought to use the word mystical to describe my connection to golf, I can certainly relate to it, more than I can to the majority of golfers I run across.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2025, 05:09:33 PM »
What is so "mystical" about someone telling ME how I (should) feel on a golf course or how the experience should affect people?

The video link is very static and I'm thankful for that because I would not have watched it to its conclusion.

I'm confident most posters on GCA would NOT describe playing/enjoying golf as "mystical."


I’m surprised that you think Ram Dass was telling you how YOU should feel on a golf course; I don’t think that was the case at all.  Perhaps it’s good/helpful to remember not only who Ram Dass was, but also the audience to whom he was speaking.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2025, 06:09:56 PM »



I’m surprised that you think Ram Dass was telling you how YOU should feel on a golf course; I don’t think that was the case at all.  Perhaps it’s good/helpful to remember not only who Ram Dass was, but also the audience to whom he was speaking.
A.G.,

As I said, the video was so clunky on my end I had no desire to pursue the entirety of the "message."
Knowing who Dass was or his audience is irrelevant.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2025, 09:08:40 PM »



I’m surprised that you think Ram Dass was telling you how YOU should feel on a golf course; I don’t think that was the case at all.  Perhaps it’s good/helpful to remember not only who Ram Dass was, but also the audience to whom he was speaking.
A.G.,

As I said, the video was so clunky on my end I had no desire to pursue the entirety of the "message."
Knowing who Dass was or his audience is irrelevant.


“Dass” wasn’t a last name, but ok.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2025, 10:22:44 AM »



I’m surprised that you think Ram Dass was telling you how YOU should feel on a golf course; I don’t think that was the case at all.  Perhaps it’s good/helpful to remember not only who Ram Dass was, but also the audience to whom he was speaking.
A.G.,

As I said, the video was so clunky on my end I had no desire to pursue the entirety of the "message."
Knowing who Dass was or his audience is irrelevant.


“Dass” wasn’t a last name, but ok.

A.G.,
Apologies if it offended you, his family, or his audience. I was lazy before posting. My bad.
I stand firm in knowing my experience(s) while golfing are mine and unique to me.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2025, 01:03:19 PM »
 8)  What ever happened to Shivas?  He ran off to Tommy Nac's site still lambasting the use of CHEATER LINES...  Does he still live in Chicago and play across city on New Years day?


Ahh the past is mythical if not mystical...


Best for 2025
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2025, 01:13:30 PM »
8)  What ever happened to Shivas?  He ran off to Tommy Nac's site still lambasting the use of CHEATER LINES...  Does he still live in Chicago and play across city on New Years day?


Ahh the past is mythical if not mystical...


Best for 2025


I'm wondering same.

All these years later, his thread on the Reverse Jans remains one of the most entertaining things I've ever read on GCA.  Right up there with the mystical rabbit at Pebble....

Jim O’Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Ram Dass on the Mystical Nature of Golf
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 08:45:17 PM »
8)  What ever happened to Shivas?  He ran off to Tommy Nac's site still lambasting the use of CHEATER LINES...  Does he still live in Chicago and play across city on New Years day?


Ahh the past is mythical if not mystical...


Best for 2025


I'm wondering same.

All these years later, his thread on the Reverse Jans remains one of the most entertaining things I've ever read on GCA.  Right up there with the mystical rabbit at Pebble....
He's good.