Gil Hanse's The Park Course Profile (+ Lit 9!)

[Tom_Doak]

Wondering what the first tier buy in was?  If it was $100k or less quite the deal for a lifetime membership in Palm Beach , particular with all the amenities this place provides. At the end of the day given the locals can play for $60 might be quite a nice deal for all. I played and practiced a long time ago at the old facility , and liked it but this is certainly a huge upgrade.

Archie: 


I know at least three of the people who donated, and though I haven't asked any of them directly, I think it was considerably more than $100k.  [You don't raise $56m in $100k increments.]


And none of the three I know are guys who plan to use The Park as their main course.  They're members of Seminole and Pine Tree.  They might play The Park 10x per year just for the sake of variety.  They clearly did it to help the community . . . and possibly to be in the room with the other heavy hitters who donated to The Park, which is a factor not to be underestimated.

[archie_struthers]

 


Tom, thanks for the info.  Wasn't meaning to denigrate the patrons of the "Park" but it's good so I guess it's a decent 2nd or 3rd club for many of them. The par three is really fun and again what an upgrade for the golf community.

[Steve Lapper]

Wondering what the first tier buy in was?  If it was $100k or less quite the deal for a lifetime membership in Palm Beach , particular with all the amenities this place provides. At the end of the day given the locals can play for $60 might be quite a nice deal for all. I played and practiced a long time ago at the old facility , and liked it but this is certainly a huge upgrade.

Archie: 


I know at least three of the people who donated, and though I haven't asked any of them directly, I think it was considerably more than $100k.  [You don't raise $56m in $100k increments.]


And none of the three I know are guys who plan to use The Park as their main course.  They're members of Seminole and Pine Tree.  They might play The Park 10x per year just for the sake of variety.  They clearly did it to help the community . . . and possibly to be in the room with the other heavy hitters who donated to The Park, which is a factor not to be underestimated.

Archie,


  Tom is right about some parts of the above. The #'s donated by the "founders" are multiples of $100k and their generosity had zero to do with making it their primary(or likely even secondary) golf club in the area. They most definitely did it to benefit the community (and the pitch given was exactly that).


  What I would truly differ with was any intention (direct or not) "to be in the room with the other heavy hitters." These guys are all "heavy hitters," super-connected and regular stalwarts of various wealthy sections of the already uber-wealthy Palm Beach community. They see each other at the same cocktail parties, charity dinners, and on other fairways every day from October to May. No need to "pay up" to join another gathering of the fortunate.


  Perhaps others didn't have the same motives, yet those I know who participated in financing The Park did so solely out of their desire to "give back" to the game they love and the community they now call home. 

[Michael Morandi]

Sometimes I wonder if the huge price tag for these projects is some sort of self-congratulations for the donors . . . look how much we gave!, as opposed to trying to keep to a budget?


Or, whether touting such high numbers is actually meant to deter potential competitors?



But, Sandglass cost a not-small fortune, and my biggest clients say the budgets for our next course(s) are about double what similar projects cost five years ago.*  So they weren't going to build The Park for $10m, and probably not any other muni project now, either.


* Did my design fee double?  No, they are still paying what we signed up for three years ago.  I guess I should do something about that.

Tom, my understanding is that residential architects get 10% of the project cost.  Maybe you can charge like them?

[Jim Tang]

I feel that the Park is unique to public golf in that part of Florida because the course has great width, no marshland or water hazards to contend with and plays firm and fast. I think it's the best public golf course by a wide margin in that part of Florida.

[PCCraig]

  What I would truly differ with was any intention (direct or not) "to be in the room with the other heavy hitters." These guys are all "heavy hitters," super-connected and regular stalwarts of various wealthy sections of the already uber-wealthy Palm Beach community. They see each other at the same cocktail parties, charity dinners, and on other fairways every day from October to May. No need to "pay up" to join another gathering of the fortunate.


  Perhaps others didn't have the same motives, yet those I know who participated in financing The Park did so solely out of their desire to "give back" to the game they love and the community they now call home.

As one Park caddie put it to me. 100 of the original 150 founders of The Park are members of Seminole. The other 50 want to be a member of Seminole. So I think Tom is correct in that, in addition to wanting to give back to the community, there is an element of wanting to be "in the room."


I was also told that a lot of the Founders of The Park play the course decently often, in particular early with caddies. It may not be their "2nd club" but the course is good enough that it's worth mixing in a round there every so often for variety's sake. Even if Seminole is your primary golf course.


I'd have to imagine the $56mln figure has to include the additional infrastructure (clubhouse, after school learning center, etc. etc.).


I played The Park last Spring. I loved it. Super fun and interesting golf. The vibe there is wonderful as well - the range, par-3, and putting course were all packed with folks having fun playing golf. I would love to see more of these projects close to major metropolitan areas. They do more for the game of golf than another remote destination golf course that costs $1,000+/day to stay/play.

[Richard Hetzel]

It was on my radar to play last week since I was nearby. I loved the caddy and walking aspect before 9am, but NOT the $240 green fee for an out of stater, so I passed.

[John Blain]

The Park is likely the best publicly accessible course in South Florida. Great variety of holes, walkable property, firm and fast, cool short course, great practice facilities (though it took a while to build the driving range nets high enough), lots of fun pro shop merch. Hanse & Wagner did a fine job. The par 5s are excellent, and 10 is a great par 4 right before the much-photographed par-3 11th.


It's just that it's a publicly owned CCFAD course, far more than a muni. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I think there's been some haziness over that point in the positioning of The Park within the greater golf landscape.





Thinking about The Park's $56 million reported project cost vs. the ~$10 million for Keney Park in Hartford a few years ago, or ~$3 million for Charleston Muni, I know which projects I would want to be seen as the real exemplars of municipal golf reinvention/reinvigoration.

Remind me again what CCFAD stands for?  Thank you!

[John Blain]

The original WPBCC was a great old Dick Wilson course. So much fun to play and you could get some great games there with club pros down from the north, local amateurs, etc.
It was such a shame when Mark Mccumber came in and sold the city of WPB on a full renovation. What a disaster.
$56 million seems ridiculous.

[Cliff Hamm]

It was on my radar to play last week since I was nearby. I loved the caddy and walking aspect before 9am, but NOT the $220 greens fee for out of stater, so I passed.

I think this is likely a common sentiment. Yet Streamsong is doing well and I suspect Cabot Citrus will do likewise. Both have significantly higher greens fees for a comparable course.  Does the fact that it’s a ‘muni’ make at least a subconscious difference?

[PCCraig]

It was on my radar to play last week since I was nearby. I loved the caddy and walking aspect before 9am, but NOT the $220 greens fee for out of stater, so I passed.

I think this is likely a common sentiment. Yet Streamsong is doing well and I suspect Cabot Citrus will do likewise. Both have significantly higher greens fees for a comparable course.  Does the fact that it’s a ‘muni’ make at least a subconscious difference?

In my opinion, $220 is a very fair price for a sand-based Gil Hanse design 10 minutes from Palm Beach.


I'm fine if the course wants to charge me a bit more to play it once or twice a year, especially if a local kid can play it in the afternoon for sub $50.

[Jeff Schley]

The original WPBCC was a great old Dick Wilson course. So much fun to play and you could get some great games there with club pros down from the north, local amateurs, etc.
It was such a shame when Mark Mccumber came in and sold the city of WPB on a full renovation. What a disaster.
$56 million seems ridiculous.

How much of that 56 was to relocate the clubhouse, entrance, parking lot, infrastructure?  The before and after photos show all that, which had to be at least half of the budget or more.

[Colin Sheehan]

Richard,
I find it funny that you balked at a $220 round at the Park while listing your favorite courses of 2024 in the subhead of your posts that includes a club that might have most expensive annual dues in the country. At what price would you have played the Park?

[Richard Hetzel]

It was on my radar to play last week since I was nearby. I loved the caddy and walking aspect before 9am, but NOT the $220 greens fee for out of stater, so I passed.

I think this is likely a common sentiment. Yet Streamsong is doing well and I suspect Cabot Citrus will do likewise. Both have significantly higher greens fees for a comparable course.  Does the fact that it’s a ‘muni’ make at least a subconscious difference?

Having played both the aforementioned Keney Park and Charleston Muni (love them both!) it didn't strike me in that same vein.


Since my wife was playing with me I couldn't justify the cost as I was on vacation as well, and NOT a golf vacation, so unfortunately for me, the wife has a say! We played Osprey Point GC in Boca Ration for less than $200 total with a cart. Was it a better course, probably not, but it was a worthwhile course to play and better than NOT playing at home in Ohio this time of year.  I have only played Streamsong Blue, and in order for me to play the other courses there, as well as the Cabot Citrus courses, it will be a summer time game to mitigate the $350 a night it costs to stay there.


I'll get to The Park eventually, but it will be in the warmer months as I don't really mind playing in the heat.


I have never said I wouldn't splurge over $200 for a round (as I have on many occasions), but it will be a course that I really want to see, like Crystal Downs, and that was right in that ball park. The Park just is not a "must play" for me right now.

[Richard Hetzel]

Richard,
I find it funny that you balked at a $220 round at the Park while listing your favorite courses of 2024 in the subhead of your posts that includes a club that might have most expensive annual dues in the country. At what price would you have played the Park?

And, which course might that be? I never paid more than $200 for a round this past year with the exception of maybe my Sand Valley trip and I played 36 holes a day to save some duckies since we stayed on site. If you are referring to The Bridge on Long Island, I paid my caddy twice what I paid to play golf there. My round at Montauk Downs was actually more expensive sans the caddy fee.