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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: https://womenfriendlygolfcourse.com/
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2024, 07:26:22 PM »
Niall,


Sometimes having a voice means knowing when to use it and when to not.


I feel Nicholas's website is something that shouldn't come from a male perspective.


It's made even tougher if this is a branding play to brand yourself as a female focused architect. When there are great female architects. If you are playing that game we as young male architects are starting from a step behind in that space.


Not saying we can't or shouldn't design for all players. But if we are talking about Women's friendly golf, I can't really talk about it as a non woman because there are lots of things that as a man I don't experience.


Like notice how Christine talks about bathrooms a lot in her interviews with men. It's because that's a simple example that men often ignore when talking about a female experience in golf.


This whole thread has been men talking about their experiences and not one other than myself has probably engaged with this issue enough to understand. It reeks of male privilege to impose ideas onto the women's game without holding space for and opening comment to women.


If this thread was about designing or building courses for men or women. The gender of the architects shouldn't really matter as Christine and Angela have pointed out numerous times. But this thread isn't about that.


This thread is about a man imposing as system for rating courses friendliness to women. Which is completely overstepping. I was hesitant to comment because in doing so I bump the thread and bring light to this dumb idea. If he had female cofounders or other directors maybe but even then. This isn't our space as men to talk.


If we want to build better courses for more people we have to open our minds and listen. Speaking isn't the most important skill in architecture,  Listening is.


Ben


It's too late in the evening to try and respond point by point but there's a lot in your post which I think should be challenged. Unless I'm mistaken the basic idea that you seem to have that men aren't qualified to design a course for women, presumably on the basis that men gca's don't play like your average woman and therefore don't have their perspective. If you followed that logic then Dr MacKenzie (9 handicap) was wasting his time designing a course that would be used every year for one of the men's majors, and that the likes of Tom Doak (also about a 9 hcp I believe) and Robin Hiseman (6 or 7 hcp ?) had no business designing courses that used by the professional tours. And yet they did, very successfully. I'd suggest they were able to do so, not by being able to play like a top professional, but by observing how top professionals played and by using their skill as gca's.


In terms of Nicholas's accreditation idea I also dislike it but not because Nicolas is overstepping. He has every right to promote his ideas and I don't see them being any less valid because he's a man. He doesn't need a female cofounder (?) to validate those ideas. Those ideas should be considered on there own merit rather than on who is presenting them.


Niall


ps. in terms of your comments in post #41, I'd refer you back to post #17 for design ideas other than length.


 




Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: https://womenfriendlygolfcourse.com/
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2024, 09:00:14 PM »
When I was a teen, the manager of the course I worked at was an older lady who basically fit the description. A 380-yard par 5 was a Driver, 5-wood, 5-wood, iron for her when hitting it well.
If her 5W goes 120… at some point, you kinda end up drawing a line. She could have played from wherever she wanted - expecting to have tees at… 3000 yards so she can get close to her 5I x 36 yardage… The courses that do have those just put tee markers in the fairway.

I have a wife and a daughter (albeit a daughter who is a +1), so I'm in support of better playing conditions for women (and juniors), but I don't think you can fully accommodate everyone with the full experience. What do you do if a 75-year-old woman only hits her high-lofted driver 85 yards?




Yes, I agree that where to draw that line isn’t a simple decision, but I think it can be redrawn somewhat shorter in many cases. I don’t know exactly what the line should be, hopefully a forum like this would be a place to discuss it. I think we do ok accommodating men who are X% shorter than average, we should probably also accommodate women who are X% shorter than the average woman.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: https://womenfriendlygolfcourse.com/
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2024, 09:23:00 PM »
Using the 36x5-iron basis that’s been mentioned herein a few times over the years then 18-holes totalling 4,600 yds gives a 5-iron distance of 128 yds.
Be interesting to know what proportion of 28 hcp women carry their 5-iron this far?
Atb


How many 28 Hcp women even carry a 5 iron?  Have they even seen one? Shoot, I’m a 5 and I don’t carry one.

Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: https://womenfriendlygolfcourse.com/
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2024, 09:50:37 PM »
Nicolas, I commend you for taking on this interesting and challenging topic.  I'm a mid-teens handicap male golfer approaching seniors privileges.  My carry distance has fallen fast from ~240 yards to 210 and I fear lower numbers in my future.  I have lady friends whose driver carry distances 'may' be 100 yards but may be less.  There are 1000s of such golfers in Florida, maybe 10s or 1000s...and the game must be hard enough to many to call it quits.  Not sure how you build a course for the flat bellies and the senior citizens, but it's a worthy topic.