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Ranking my favorite holes at Pine Valley from 1-18
archie_struthers:
First off ;D I love the place . It has been the primary reason for my passion for golf club architecture and a myriad of wonderful memories , co-workers and great friends for the last 50 years. Not to discount my start at Woodcrest CC, but my time at the "Valley" galvanized my love for the game.
So , before my memory fades I thought I would rank the holes , not by difficulty but by affinity! For all of those who have spent any time there this list could likely swap my #18 th favorite, note "favorite" with their number 1. Such is the greatness of the Crump design (along with his fellows) Ok, let's have at it!
1 yep number one is my favorite, at least today. It sets the bar for the whole day. Be fearless and challenge the corner on
the opening tee shot , don't want a long shot to this green
4 would have been my top choice if not for the "new" bunkers (25 years ago) that changed the angle of the tee shot for
many! Even so, too many great things going on here particularly the second shot
16 just so pretty walking down to the green with water everywhere! also the scene of my favorite Ernie Ransome moment
2 Is it the finest green out here , probably 8) Giant breaks in front and pernicious as hell in the back
11 best cut-thru for caddies here and even on the hottest days there was a breeze , subtle genius in the design here
9 the new addition of the skyline green (left) made this one move up on the list....great two shotter
13 gotta stripe the tee shot right of center and then the splendor of the second shot opens to the eye
5 one of the best par threes on the planet , so it has to get some respect. Green demands your full attention
15 it is so hard to build a fortress par five, particularly now that distance is out of control ..... still valid today as a three shot hole....green is so difficult that many a great round ends here
8 how could I wait so long....in Crump Cup qualifier might be the scariest par
18 awesome finishing hole where despite it's difficulty you can make a birdie (or double)
7 Hell's Half Acre is the defining feature here , the longest hole on a course where distance isn't the most important skill
3 two disparate sections to this downhill par three , so get your yardage right
6 bite off as much as you like on this "Cape" hole but maybe a three wood a better option with the new tee, miss Alec
Ewing to this day!
17 the new tee a great add on , before that the easiest hole on the course , in match play a pivotal hole in high level matches
10 there is another bunker lurking left on this hole that is unmentionable too
14 if it's even a little windy never wanted to hit first here
12 beautiful little par four with a green that slopes away , have to hit your tee shot long and right to get an easy angle
post script Merry Christmas to all you who listen to my PVGC rants...bless you all
It will be fifty (50) years this summer that Tommy Elder (RIP) hired me to caddie there. Loved that guy! and to Charley Raudenbush GM-pro emeritus thank you too!
Tommy Williamsen:
I’ll try my hand at this. I probably have played a dozen or so rounds at PV. The order isn’t absolute, but it’s close.
#1 lets you know what the next 17 holes will be like.
#2 The first time I played and walked from the first green to the second tee, I didn’t want to hit my tee shot. I just wanted to stare at the hole. I wished I was a painter. I thought it was the most beautiful inland hole I ever saw. Then, when I played it and the marvelous green, I thought it was one of the best mid-length holes on the planet.
#3 This hole is special because my son left his tee ball on the lip. The pin was in the middle, and my 16-year-old son hit his four iron to the right side of the green and watched as the ball began to roll toward the hole. We thought it was going in.
#10 is the first hole I played at PV. The course was a bit crowded, and the caddie master put us off on the back nine. I pulled out an eight iron, watched my ball hit the green, and trundle down to the devil’s Ahole. It pulled up short. I never was short again.
#17 This is a fun short par four that is a chance for a birdie before tackling the tough 18th hole.
#8 I’m a sucker for a short par four, and this is one of the best. I like the left green better.
#6 I love that this hole tempts you to cut the corner but dooms most who try it.
#4 Hitting the green from a downhill lie is tricky, but it is one of the few holes that will accept a running shot.
#15 I have never played this hole well. It is just too harsh a par five more mortals. It is long, uphill, and gets narrower the closer you get to the green.
#5 I took a few plays before I decided just to hit my tee ball to the front left corner of the green and try to make three from there. It’s a scary shot. I had seen the travails of Gene Littler and never wanted any part of missing the green to the right.
#7 I am pretty straight off the tee, and that is essential at seven. If I can’t play 15 well, I do play this one rather well: drive, second shot over Hell’s half acre, and a short iron to the green.
#14 is another hole where the beauty takes your breath away. It isn’t the most difficult hole on the course, but you can’t wait to get there. For some reason, though, I tend to come up short on the green, just barely.
#13 is the most challenging hole on the course for me. I just don’t hit it long enough to give me a good chance of making four.
#12 Feels like a less intimidating mate to #13.
#9 is one of the lesser-known holes, but it is good, especially to the left green.
#16 Like Archie, I love the beauty of this hole. After 15, it feels like a reprieve.
#18 Boy, is this a challenging finishing hole. I have been either in the front bunkers or over the green. Pulling the correct club baffled me.
#11 might be my least favorite hole. It isn’t as inspiring as the other 17.
Tom_Doak:
Archie:
Yours is an interesting list. I've often said that I found it funny that the holes which never got a mention as being one of Pine Valley's best would be icons if they were at another course, and my main examples were the 4th and 16th.
I would probably rank the 12th at the bottom, as you did, but also the 15th. I agree that it's tough as nails but it has always seemed to me that if you don't get yourself in good position with your first two shots you are just doomed to make 6 or 7. And I was never good enough to get where I needed to be in two!
MCirba:
When I tell people that (despite the over-manicured sandy areas & the need to remove more trees in key areas, IMO) Pine Valley is the greatest course in the United States and probably the world, I say that it's because it has 17 great holes and 1 really good hole and people differ on which is the really good hole.
The fact that this list could be so variable among different people and depending on the day of the week makes that pretty clear.
archie_struthers:
8)
Love both of the replies so figure I'm all in on this one! Tommy W some really good stuff , as I contemplated having 1,2,4 and 5 topping the chart. Like you given that it is a FAVORITE hole list and not all architecturally based some memories guide me also. #2, despite the obvious qualities , has so many stories for me.
My favorite might be the Saturday circa 1978 when looping for local legends John Ott, Joe Holman, Mr Ransome and Warner Shelly. Dr. Laurie Dyson another local had a home just right of the second hole driving zone. He was famous for his early work using lithium carbonate to treat mental illness. I was looping with "Broadway Joe" who was irreverent and at times yes schizophrenic. After the tee shots Mr Shelly drove his three wheeled cart to the right and "Doc" Dyson appeared in it seconds later in full scrubs. John Ott said grab him Archie and I put Broadway in a full nelson. He screamed and yelled as "Doc" approached with a horse needle of epic proportions. "Doc" couldn't take it anymore and broke out in a fit of laughter as did all the the rest of us. Joe never forgave me for betraying him ;D
Tom Doak ...thanks as always for hanging in the tree house. Think of those bunkers on the top of the hill on #4 . Beautifully and seamlessly integrated into the landscape and I truly hate them . Changed that great tee shot for many players like me ! Closest hole to a ten I've ever played without them
Just saw Mike's reply ...you got it, more importantly you get it!
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