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Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« on: December 16, 2024, 11:35:08 PM »
Some years ago, my wife and I were on a quick New Year’s getaway to Bend Oregon. Stealing a term, our Hogmanay dinner was at a small place, rich with massive flavors, among them was elk with Demi-glacé and dark chocolate cake. On a whim I ordered a peaty whisky with dessert and gave my wife a taste. I was shocked when she loved it. Weeks later back home I purchased the same bottle and took it home. While I cooked a meal I opened it and gave her a small nip. Before she even got it to her lips she winced and gagged and said “that’s not the same stuff at all!” I assured her it was.


Continuing on the food theme, though generally complimentary of chef Grant Achatz, Anthony Bourdain said of his meal at Achatz’s capstone achievement Alinea that it was “lethally self-serious, usually pointless, silly, annoying, and generally joyless…a misery from beginning to end.”


One criticism I see often about many links courses is their lack of interest in opening and closing holes. It reminds me of these two anecdotes above and how, in the right moment, even an aggressively peated whisky can be appealing to a delicate palate. Or conversely how to even the most well-traveled foodie, too much can just be too much.


Machrihanish ends in what I would consider an almost perfect fashion. As does The Old Course. Or coming to this side of the pond, a newer course like Old Barnwell. There’s a certain false premise that I think people tend to uphold when they think every hole should be a knockout. Frankly speaking, even though I can’t argue with its greatness, it was the biggest hurdle to enjoying Pine Valley that I found. Every hole is a world unto itself and it’s trying pretty hard to wow you at every turn. There are other great courses that also continuously and unabashedly pound the golfer with moment after thrilling moment. We can’t deny their greatness. And when another great hole shows up, the palate is so saturated that we’re left feeling like the most thrilling merely washes over the tongue like Ardbeg behind elk loin and dark chocolate.


One of the finer points to links golf (and other examples outside GB&I) is when a course comes out of the jungle of great holes and subtly ushers you to the finish. Why must it be a detriment that these courses finish the way they do?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2024, 11:37:04 PM by Ben Sims »

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2024, 02:48:30 AM »
Ben,


One of the advantages of a GCA being involved in the marketing of a course they work on is that they understand how to put any spin on how to sell it.


At Carne, the new Wild Atlantic Dunes course has 18 knockout holes. There is no other links that knocks you out from 1 to 18 like Carne does. Together with the huge dunes, it is a pretty strong sell. And it’s why the course is the best in the world for some people.


But secretly, I am with you. I like that feeling of tamer moments, different landscapes that elevate the exciting moments all the more. I like the relatively simple finisher. And I like to give my senses a rest.


I am due to be seeing Pine Valley for the first time next April. I’ll bear your words in mind. But not so closely that they distract me.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2024, 04:23:27 AM »
There's something appealing about using a hole or two to get you to the most interesting land and then to get you back to the house.  Panmure really struck me as doing this.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2024, 07:14:44 AM »
There are a few links courses that start and finish on flatter land with the larger dunes being at the far end. Borth & Ynyslas and RND/ Westward Ho being two more examples.
It’s usually to do with longshore drift and river openings and the resulting formation of the length and height of a sand spit where the start of the spit is flatter and the far end where the bigger dunes lie. Produces an almost hook-like feature maybe with a shallow slack water area behind.
Of course some links lie within other features such as coves and headlands where the dunes may not necessarily be in a spit like formation.
And such features are constantly changing with the wind, waves, tides, seabed conditions, storms plus the hand of man too with sea and river defences and even further out to sea if there’s offshore dredging nearby.
Atb

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2024, 07:57:38 AM »

One of the advantages of a GCA being involved in the marketing of a course they work on is that they understand how to put any spin on how to sell it.

At Carne, the new Wild Atlantic Dunes course has 18 knockout holes. There is no other links that knocks you out from 1 to 18 like Carne does. Together with the huge dunes, it is a pretty strong sell. And it’s why the course is the best in the world for some people.


That’s a great example of your first paragraph, Ally.  :D

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2024, 08:11:27 AM »
There are a few links courses that start and finish on flatter land with the larger dunes being at the far end. Borth & Ynyslas and RND/ Westward Ho being two more examples.


I would add St Andrews and North Berwick to this list.  The ground close to town is pretty tame, and the dunes get bigger as you go out from there.  So it’s just kind of a natural thing for links courses to start and finish relatively gently.


And it makes total sense for a generation of golfers and architects who thought about match play.  Letting the last hole be won with birdie (instead of lost with bogey) is much more satisfying to BOTH players.


I’ve generally not spent a lot of time trying to save the best hole for last, and I don’t know anyone who would choose to use it first if they had other options.  I’ve had countless friends (Ran among them) question why I don’t pay more attention to my finishing holes.  People seemed to love Pinehurst #10, but the one question I fielded from a few players was why we chose to make the opening stretch and the 18th so easy.  Well, it was because that’s the way the land was, and because the other holes were so tough that we needed to ease into them, and give you a bit of a break at the end.


I remember Pete Dye complaining to me that clients wanted “every hole to be a postcard” - a reference to Pine Valley, where they used to sell a set of postcards including every hole back in the day.  Pete didn’t like that, either.

Nick Schreiber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2024, 08:30:53 AM »
While I have every reason to agree with Ben on this one, I will offer a quick counterpoint.

I had the good fortune of playing at Tree Farm last week as part of the 2nd annual Holiday Matches between TTF & Old Barnwell. It was the first time I had visited since they opened their clubhouse/lodging, and to play the driveable par four 18th hole with a small crowd gathered behind the green (and in front of the very appealing clubhouse) was a treat, a memorable end to a very memorable day. The 18th is both a birdie hole AND a finisher with fireworks, and though it's not my favorite hole on a course with many great stretches, it's hard to deny the drama it produces!

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2024, 08:33:49 AM »
Ben


I recall a number of years ago (decades even, yikes !) sitting in an Amsterdam café enjoying an afternoon refreshment and feeling quite mellow while listening to Anita Baker being played over the sound system. A beautiful vibe. As soon as I got home I immediately purchased her CD and it now sits rather uncomfortably beside my collection of punk/new wave/guitar driven CD’s. I doubt I’ve played it more than once since I bought it. An object lesson in there being a time and a place for everything. 


That said, totally agree about flatter holes.  They often go unheralded but they also often produce some really good golf. Thinking of the opening holes at Panmure, less so the finishing holes, which in turn reminds me of the original opening holes at Renaissance. The original opening hole at Renaissance had a shallow ridge running through the green, similar to the first at Panmure which I really liked. They also just bring variety, which I tend to think is usually a good thing. A constant diet of bling would probably get a bit old but then never really experienced it.
 
Niall

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2024, 09:05:48 AM »

One of the advantages of a GCA being involved in the marketing of a course they work on is that they understand how to put any spin on how to sell it.

At Carne, the new Wild Atlantic Dunes course has 18 knockout holes. There is no other links that knocks you out from 1 to 18 like Carne does. Together with the huge dunes, it is a pretty strong sell. And it’s why the course is the best in the world for some people.


That’s a great example of your first paragraph, Ally.  :D


Exactly.


The point being that any architect can write a narrative that makes perfect sense to anyone who will listen.


Of course, what I say above is true. If we’d used a bunch of tamer land, we could sell a completely different narrative as true.


Both could be sold as the best decision out there.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2024, 10:41:37 AM »
I mean the reason why so many old links have flat opening and closing holes is pretty obvious: there wasn't the money to build a road to where the undulating land was, so they started wherever the road was. If you think this is a good thing, then great: I'm not sure too many golfers would agree, but you know what they say about opinions :)

Ever since I first went there I have cited Machrihanish as my favourite golf course in the world, so please understand this is coming from a position of deep love for the course, but I have felt for quite a long time that the famous tee shot on the first helps the course get away with some otherwise fairly bland golf -- the approach to the first hole is not desperately interesting, imo. In many ways I think the true Machrihanish experience begins and ends when you cross the burn.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2024, 11:57:21 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2024, 11:27:02 AM »
I mean the reason why so many old links have flat opening and closing holes is pretty obvious: there wasn't the money to build a road to where the undulating land was, so they started wherever the road was. If you think this is a good thing, then great: I'm not sure too many golfers would agree, but you know what they say about opinions :)


Ever since I first went there I have cited Machrihanish as my favourite golf course in the world, so please understand this is coming from a position of deep love for the course, but I have felt for quite a long time that the famous tee shot on the first helps the course get away with some otherwise fairly bland golf -- the approach to the first hole is not desperately interesting, imo. In many ways I think the true Machrihanish experience begins and ends when you cross the burn.


The way you write about this phenomenon is interesting. Whether you meant it or not, it seems written in a negative tone. In my opinion, the true Machrihanish experience is the whole thing. Just as a bland opening tee shot is part of the St Andrew’s experience.


On another recent thread the question was asked, what is the basic unit of golf architecture. A surprising number said the course. I didn’t post but I would have argued the hole. After starting this thread and reading some responses, I think I’m changing my opinion. 


I’m an unabashed homer for Old Barnwell. It’s a very thoughtful and interesting golf course. One of the things I like is the opening tee shot and closing approach shot and the way they are presented. You hit the opening shot and walk through or around a long earthen wall/barrow/faux buried stone wall, whatever you want to call it. It’s sort of an entrance into your round. On the 18th, there’s a smaller version of this feature and where I usually hit my tee shot, I have to hit over that earthen wall and then walk past or through it to get to the relatively benign 18th. I feel like those two features interact as a sort of door to and from the golf course.


For whatever reason that’s how I feel about links courses starting and ending demurely. To your point, yes, it’s probably out of necessity rather than design. I still think it’s a positive feature.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2024, 11:28:36 AM by Ben Sims »

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2024, 12:25:18 PM »
Bearing in mind "It makes you want to go right back to the first tee and play again" seems to be one of the highest compliments one can pay a golf course, I have found that courses whose finishing holes are gentler or more gettable tend to be more likely to make me feel that way than courses with brutish final bosses.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2024, 12:34:55 PM »
Bearing in mind "It makes you want to go right back to the first tee and play again" seems to be one of the highest compliments one can pay a golf course, I have found that courses whose finishing holes are gentler or more gettable tend to be more likely to make me feel that way than courses with brutish final bosses.


Yeah, that's a good point. Finishing with an eight tends to send you to the clubhouse in a very bad mood :)
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2024, 01:19:56 PM »
I mean the reason why so many old links have flat opening and closing holes is pretty obvious: there wasn't the money to build a road to where the undulating land was, so they started wherever the road was. If you think this is a good thing, then great: I'm not sure too many golfers would agree, but you know what they say about opinions :)
Ever since I first went there I have cited Machrihanish as my favourite golf course in the world, so please understand this is coming from a position of deep love for the course, but I have felt for quite a long time that the famous tee shot on the first helps the course get away with some otherwise fairly bland golf -- the approach to the first hole is not desperately interesting, imo. In many ways I think the true Machrihanish experience begins and ends when you cross the burn.
Likely also best especially when building in yee olde era to have the Clubhouse etc positioned on an area providing a solid firm foundation rather than on an undulating sandy expanse of terrain that might well be subject to shifting sand movement over time. An aspect for civil engineers to ponder.
Atb

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2024, 02:31:28 PM »
Bearing in mind "It makes you want to go right back to the first tee and play again" seems to be one of the highest compliments one can pay a golf course, I have found that courses whose finishing holes are gentler or more gettable tend to be more likely to make me feel that way than courses with brutish final bosses.
I don't agree.  But then I don't mind getting beaten up by a tough course.  Two courses where I did go right back to the first tee and play again (albeit with a break for lunch) were Carnoustie and Wolf Run.  Not sure I broke 100 on either
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2024, 03:41:16 PM »
I mean the reason why so many old links have flat opening and closing holes is pretty obvious: there wasn't the money to build a road to where the undulating land was, so they started wherever the road was. If you think this is a good thing, then great: I'm not sure too many golfers would agree, but you know what they say about opinions :)
Ever since I first went there I have cited Machrihanish as my favourite golf course in the world, so please understand this is coming from a position of deep love for the course, but I have felt for quite a long time that the famous tee shot on the first helps the course get away with some otherwise fairly bland golf -- the approach to the first hole is not desperately interesting, imo. In many ways I think the true Machrihanish experience begins and ends when you cross the burn.
Likely also best especially when building in yee olde era to have the Clubhouse etc positioned on an area providing a solid firm foundation rather than on an undulating sandy expanse of terrain that might well be subject to shifting sand movement over time. An aspect for civil engineers to ponder.
Atb


TBH I doubt there was much of a clubhouse at Machrihanish in 1876. Or at other very old links when they were founded.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Red meat, flawed premises, and Machrihanish
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2024, 05:54:37 PM »
Mentioning old clubhouses, here’s a link to a thread I raised a while ago containing numerous photos of old clubhouses. Not just links course clubhouses, all sorts and different countries too. Some palatial, some rather more basic.
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67922.msg1635083.html#msg1635083

Atb