Most Links golf is lesser golf compared to quality hilly courses.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike is very savvy about GCA so I should have also realized he was just trying to spark debate.  He has played enough links golf to know that you can have three or four kinds of weather during one round which can create all kinds of varied golfing challenges.  It can be howling one minute with rain or even hail then dead calm a hole or two later.  That rarely ever happens on a Parkland course.  Architects like Flynn especially are known for building solid tests of golf but most don’t have the nuances, quirk and variety of a great links design.  Again this is the beauty of all kinds of different playing fields.  Many over this way don’t appreciate how good and unique links golf is compared to what we mostly play here.  I know Mike gets that as he has played enough to know.

[Ally Mcintosh]

It does links golf a huge disservice to keep on promoting the falsity that it needs wind or weather.

[Simon Barrington]

It does links golf a huge disservice to keep on promoting the falsity that it needs wind or weather.

Indeed, micro undualtions are exentuated on links courses by golf by firmer & faster conditions, encouraging (& sometimes demanding) the ground or running approach.

Hilly courses, although they may have exaggerated topography (macro undulations), often have softer conditions that obfuscate or ignore those slopes and demand a lofted approach. They prescribe less variety and choice in play, producing somewhat ironically "one-dimensional" golf and are inferior for that.

[Ira Fishman]

I am sure that you all have figured out until we all declare Flynn the greatest architect of all time and Rolling Green one of the top 10 courses in the world, the DG will experience (for the better) these threads.


Ira

[Tim Martin]

This is a provocative yet thought provoking thread. I’m enjoying catching up on the different posts and hope people continue to share their thoughts. It seems Mayday waited until he got to Vermont before starting the thread knowing he could easily slip into Canada if he needed to go off the grid.

[Niall C]

Anecdotally, while the pros regularly eviscerate TOC they certainly don't do same to ANGC...

Yes but it's always possible to get back on TOC by simply paying a greenfee. It's a bit more tricky to slag off Augusta and get back there unless you're no. 1 in the rankings or already have a green jacket.


That's the flippant answer but I'd also suggest your average tour pro is unused to the charms of TOC and links golf in general, hence the criticism. 


Niall

[Ben Sims]

Last year as I was playing North Berwick for the fifth time I suddenly thought that it was kind of a novelty compared to the challenges we face on several courses west of Philadelphia.

“If you don’t like golf in Scotland, pause to consider who knows more about the game—them or you?” 

[Charlie Goerges]

I don't think it's so weird of a question to ask. Dramatic elevation change (hills and valleys) is inherently appealing to people, and were a big part of what I liked about golf architecture to begin with. Still some of my favorite course tours are those with the most dramatic elevation changes. Where I do start to slightly diverge with Mayday nowadays is in how well those elevation changes play, especially as I get older and hit it lower and shorter. Downhill is always pretty fun to me, but uphill can be a real slog sometimes... and there's no downhill without at least some uphill.

[Mark Pearce]

It's a question based on a false premise.  Mayday knows that, so I assume he's trolling.  In a good way.

[Jim Hoak]

The premise of this post is wrong, but so is the position that all links courses are good.  Why can't we just enjoy and celebrate the variety of experiences that golf on differing courses offer?  It doesn't need to be a battle.  I just thank God for the many differences that the game of golf gives to us.

[mike_malone]

 The choice of “ miniature golf” is to  indicate that this is a lighthearted topic but one that came to my mind.




  I expect to hear a defense of links courses which I have.


My experience is that as you get closer to the green the hilly course becomes more challenging than links and I think that’s the most important thing.


As a matter of fact that day at North Berwick was magical. The weather and the company were magnificent.
 

[Matt Schoolfield]

I'd wager that hilly courses are too soggy to be "great" about the same number of days per year as links courses are too calm to be "great." Pretty solid rage-bait post though.

[mike_beene]

If this site was about ski area design you might have a point.

[mike_malone]

I am sure that you all have figured out until we all declare Flynn the greatest architect of all time and Rolling Green one of the top 10 courses in the world, the DG will experience (for the better) these threads.




Ira

Finally someone gets it.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
You know links golf is real golf. Everything else is an imitation. But having said that I think one real difference between links golf and other courses is green speed and that’s primarily due to the wind.  You just can’t have links greens rolling at 13 like you can on some inland courses because they would become unplayable and wind would blow balls blow off the greens.  That might be the only difference that makes some inland course greens more challenging than some links greens.