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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a downside to Golf Club Atlas for you?
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2024, 10:38:16 AM »

There was a recent thread about constructive debate occurring within (but not outside, by policy) ASGCA (& possibly EIGCA) meetings, I would suggest that frustrates many on here who would like that to be more open.

But if this DB doesn't debate such things respectfully, why would/should the professionals open the floor to such opportunities.


Since so many here are against professional courtesy and the ASGCA Ethics Code, here are the applicable phrases that apply to this discussion:


[size=0pt]I.[/size]                           [size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]Members shall recognize and respect the work of other golf course architects and shall not knowingly make statements or offer opinions and comments that are false or attempt to injure or disparage their practice, projects, or any of their work.[/size][/color]
[size=0pt]II.[/size]                   [size=0pt][/size][/color][size=0pt]Members shall not attempt to obtain or offer to undertake any commission that they know is already under a legitimate contract or agreement with another golf course architect.[/size]
There is some room between being respectful and opinions and disparaging with intent to injure, probably during a specific sales process for both parties.  As I said before, dissing your opponents for a project is not usually an effective sales technique.  I think the second phrase is the one most often broken or at least minorly fractured, especially when times are tight.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a downside to Golf Club Atlas for you?
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2024, 10:46:58 AM »
Frankly, I probably should never post here as someone in the industry.  It is a low percentage play, at best.  ;)

I am always surprised at how many folks in the biz will come up to me at trade shows, or whatever and say they appreciate my honesty.....and ability to take a punch, lol.


I have so many questions on this post:


1. Do other architects only like to interact with the actual golfers in social settings where no one will offer anything but vague polite praise?  I rarely get good feedback one on one from a stranger.


2.  How many people in “the industry” [architecture, or golf in general] think they should just keep their head down and go along to get along?


And I have so many on yours........


This (like most in life) discussion isn't black and white, as in "you have to be a jerk" or "you go along to get along."  There are always many shades of grey.


BTW, average golfers do tend to give me information, albeit perhaps not directly.  If they complement one of my designs, I make a point of asking them their favorite holes.  99% of the time, their answer concerns what hole(s) they don't like.  I think I learned from that.


I don't know that this is about go along to get along.  It's just that, as Mom used to say, you can think something and not say it, you know."  If I read a negative review here or anywhere, does it do me any good to respond, or is the better course to rationally evaluate any comments made for my own self improvement? 


I participate here because I like a good debate as much as anyone and have been involved in a few (i.e., Merion.....)  I also enjoy forums and writing my opinion out.  It sort of forces me to think first, then write (or post.) Lastly, I never want to bother anyone at home life with boring work talk.  And, I can type reasonably fast, up to 70 mistakes a minute.


Off topic, but probably not worth another thread:


To the architects who participate here, what philosophical design changes have you made based on your activity here?


For me, the one that comes to mind is that I did start placing tees closer to greens where practical.  I used to draw a 200 foot circle around the green (the back 3/4) and keep tees that distance away from the center points.  I modified that to 200 foot right, 175 ft left, and 150 (and twice less) directly behind the green. Knowing how few people overshoot a green helped foster that decision.


That said, I see so many routings by current architects that, IMHO, overdo the closeness.  That is especially true on tees on either side of a previous green, sometimes even short and right, which (again, IMHO) is too dangerous to even consider.  My guess is that those architects have not heard of or been sued over unsafe conditions, or testified in court on any safety case.  Further spacing is one of those Post WWII that should still be observed, lol.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2024, 10:55:22 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach