OT - Seve Being Seve......

[Mike_Clayton]

In view of Mikes comments above time to post this …. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrP5R3gFAgo
Enjoy.
Atb

You see that photo of the shot and the wall - truly beyond belief.




"Talent hits a target no one else can hit.
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer.

[jeffwarne]

The shot over the wall in Switzerland was beyond belief. (European Masters 1993)
Billy Foster come into the player's lounge and said "Ive just seen the greatest shot ever hit"
I went back the next year and saw the plaque marking the spot.
 It was crazy how close to the wall it was - and I asked Billy if that was where the ball really was.


The amazing thing was despite Billy imploring him to chip out Seve insisted it was possible and took what Billy assumed was a sand iron from the bag. He walked out on to the fairway to watch, looked in the bag and the sand wedge was still there.
"My God - he's got a wedge."
It's maddening the TV didn't film the shot  (or the bunker shot at the 1983 Ryder Cup)- but he chipped in from the edge of the green for a birdie - only to lose to Barry Lane by a shot.

Amazing stuff. Just watched the recap clip of the event and the photo
I suppose? he used the PW due to the lack of bounce allowing him to open the face and create more loft than his SW?
Or maybe he wanted a little slice to boot:)

 I assume he used a wedge because he was 110 yards away - at least - and thought he needed it to reach the green.
Either way - no one else even thinks of hitting the shot, let alone pulling it off.

Whoa. I didn't realize the shot was that long-wow.

[Rob Marshall]

Thanks for posting that. Truly amazing.

[Ira Fishman]

When we are talking about golfers who changed the sport since 1900, it is a short list: Jones, Hagen, Palmer, Seve, and Tiger. I am not talking about the best players, but rather transformational players.

[Simon Barrington]

When we are talking about golfers who changed the sport since 1900, it is a short list: Jones, Hagen, Palmer, Seve, and Tiger. I am not talking about the best players, but rather transformational players.

Add in "The Triumvirate" and that's a pretty good list.

Of the Triumvirate, James Braid was (especially in the way he played) the most charismatic with an astonishing recovery game.
I recently described him as "The Scottish Seve" (TM) ;-)

In terms of worldwide reach of course its Harry Vardon (but that's only because he travelled overseas, and Braid due to his sea-sickness didn't join him on his US Tours, despite multiple invites) but was famous by dint of his incredible consistency, rather than style.

JHT was perceived as more of a workmanlike inexorable grinder.

But collectively, and in terms of column inches, unrivalled at a key point of growth in our game

(Pre-1900 Allan Robertson, Young Tommy, and John Ball Jnr. would of course enter the conversation)

Those who want to learn more should start by asking for Stephen Proctor's excellent book "Long Golden Afternoon" in their Holiday stocking.

[Niall C]

When we are talking about golfers who changed the sport since 1900, it is a short list: Jones, Hagen, Palmer, Seve, and Tiger. I am not talking about the best players, but rather transformational players.

Ira


Care to elaborate why you think each of the above changed the sport ?


Niall

[Rob Marshall]

Ryder Cup was just about dead until Seve came along.

[Kalen Braley]

When we are talking about golfers who changed the sport since 1900, it is a short list: Jones, Hagen, Palmer, Seve, and Tiger. I am not talking about the best players, but rather transformational players.

Ira

Care to elaborate why you think each of the above changed the sport ?

Niall

And perhaps the biggest question in my mind... the omission of Jack.

[Ira Fishman]

Kalen, it is not a list of the best players but ones who had the biggest impact on the sport beyond their playing accomplishments.


Niall,


Jones—reached audiences way beyond traditional golf audiences to make the game known and popular plus throw in starting the Masters.


Hagen—gave dignity and status to golf professionals.


Palmer—made golf a TV sport and brought it out at least for a time from its elitist cultural standing.


Seve—what Rob said plus prompted Europe to get into the game in a truly serious way.


Tiger—pretty self evident.


Good cases could be made for the Big 3 as Simon points out as well as Ouimet, Babe Zaharias, Peter Thomson, Player, Lee Elder, and Annika.

[Jeff Fortson]

One of my all-time favorite clips is Seve on the 5th at TOC in The Open hitting a long-ish iron with the ball above his feet and on a downhill lie.  Trevino saying, "Touch of class, baby. Touch of class. Get up! Buena, Seve." lives in my head forever.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3hKyCg_uD8

[Jeff Fortson]

.

[BHoover]

One of my all-time favorite clips is Seve on the 5th at TOC in The Open hitting a long-ish iron with the ball above his feet and on a downhill lie.  Trevino saying, "Touch of class, baby. Touch of class. Get up! Buena, Seve." lives in my head forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3hKyCg_uD8

I too love that clip. Trevino recognized genius when he saw it and gave a great shot the praise it deserved. For me, Trevino and Seve were the most charismatic golfers we’ve seen in the last 50 years. They seemed to come from similar humble backgrounds and learned to become great shotmakers in similar ways — Trevino learned by beating balls on a driving range in Texas and Seve learned with a 3 iron on the beach.

[Thomas Dai]

I too love that clip. Trevino recognized genius when he saw it and gave a great shot the praise it deserved. For me, Trevino and Seve were the most charismatic golfers we’ve seen in the last 50 years. They seemed to come from similar humble backgrounds and learned to become great shotmakers in similar ways — Trevino learned by beating balls on a driving range in Texas and Seve learned with a 3 iron on the beach.

Back in time BBC UK used to have a show called Pro-Celebrity golf hosted by Peter Alliss.
Various pros and celebs took part including for some episodes Seve and Lee.
Here is one of the episodes they featured in -
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa3_4ywEj-Q&pp=ygUlQmFsbGV0ZXJvcyB0cmV2aW5vIHBybyBjZWxlYnJpdHkgZ29sZg%3D%3D
Enjoy
Atb

[David Cronan]

Another sight of Seve which I’ll never forget is at the US Open at Oakland Hills (mid 80’s) on the 1st tee where he was taking left handed warmup swings. They were the prettiest and most fluid swings I saw all week from any player. Seriously.


And while we’re posting links and speaking of both Seve and Trevino on a golf architecture site, here’s a video of a one club challenge featuring the aforementioned, played at aThe Old Course.


You can’t teach genius…..


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlh5E9SVxiE&pp=ygUcb25lIGNsdWIgY2hhbGxlbmdlIGdvbGYgc2V2ZQ%3D%3D

[Niall C]

Kalen, it is not a list of the best players but ones who had the biggest impact on the sport beyond their playing accomplishments.


Niall,


Jones—reached audiences way beyond traditional golf audiences to make the game known and popular plus throw in starting the Masters.


Hagen—gave dignity and status to golf professionals.


Palmer—made golf a TV sport and brought it out at least for a time from its elitist cultural standing.


Seve—what Rob said plus prompted Europe to get into the game in a truly serious way.


Tiger—pretty self evident.


Good cases could be made for the Big 3 as Simon points out as well as Ouimet, Babe Zaharias, Peter Thomson, Player, Lee Elder, and Annika.

Ira


The game has grown since the 1850's so using your logic you could probably start with Allan Robertson and then list every pre-eminent player along the way up until today. However I tend to think that accomplishing remarkable things/results doesn't necessarily equate to changing the game.


Niall 

[Sean_A]

I think more in terms of agronomy and equipment developments and maintenance practices changing the game far more than players. I can only speak for myself so far as players changing the game. Without question Jack stands alone for me because he was the dominant player when I was learning the game.

Sadly, I never saw Seve swing a club in person.

Ciao

[Niall C]

    My favorite Seve story only tangentially involves Seve. He was playing a match against Azinger (Ryder Cup maybe?). Azinger was standing over a ball in a very bad lie, shaking his head. Seve came by and Azinger asked for relief, which Seve denied. “Fine,” said Azinger, “It’s your ball.”
   I hope it’s true. 🤷‍♂️

It was an exhibition match with Tony Johnstone - all done in good humour.

Another Tony Johnstone story (I think) and as I remember it;
 
TJ was practising bunker shots on the practice area when Seve went by. After a bit of chat they decide to have a little competition to see who could get the ball closest on a best of 3 basis. After they had both played one shot each, Seve was the closest so he was one up. With the second shots, TJ was closest so the “match” was all square.
 
As it was TJ’s honour he played his 3^rd shot first and proceeded to hole it. Delighted with the shot he danced about the bunker, punching the air and generally hooping and hollering. Seve glared at him, and when TJ had calmed down a bit, he asked him to be quiet so he could play his shot.
 
Seve then proceeded to hole his shot and when the ball went in he calmly turned to TJ and said “now you can celebrate your half”.
 
Niall

[BHoover]

I was recently rewatching the extended highlights of the 1984 Open. Was that tournament the apex of the combination of great players (Seve and Watson at the top of their games), course and playing conditions (TOC, a beautiful brown, playing firm and fast but without the need to have the tees outrageously moved as far back as possible to combat equipment), and equipment (persimmon woods, blades, balata balls, plus actual golf shoes with real metal spikes). It was everything I wish golf still could be at the highest level.


Speaking of the 1984 Open, what the hell was Tom Watson thinking hitting a 2 iron into the Road Hole? How was that ever going to be anything but over the green and up against the wall? Regardless, it was wonderful seeing long irons come into play on par 4s (and not just off the tee).

[David_Tepper]

Ira -

I like your list of "impactful" players. I think I would add Ben Hogan and Jack Nicklaus. Hogan for the mystique/legend that evolved around his career, persona, work ethic, etc. and Nicklaus for his major wins and especially winning the Masters in 1986 at 46 years old. That was one of the huge moments in golf over the past 50 years.

It is interesting that Sam Snead seems to have become forgotten over the past 20-30 years, especially given how many tournament he won and how long he played. He certainly was very prominent in the game during his lifetime, but now you rarely hear him mentioned. You don't see videos on youtube studying his swing or articles about him in golf magazines.

DT   

[Michael Tamburrini]

My favourite Seve shot is probably one that wouldn't rate in his top 100...


https://youtu.be/83PInODS0xM?feature=shared&t=3283


It's the final day of the 1995 Ryder Cup at Oak Hill and Seve is out first against Tom Lehman. Seve's drives so far have went left into an unplayable lie, right into trees, left into a tree (only travelling 70 yards) and now, on the 5th, he's hit it right into the trees again. Ken Brown and Larry Mize are following the match and discussing whether he should pitch it out to the left or to the right. But they grow increasingly bemused that he keeps looking up at the big trees in front of him. The camera angle (from above) when he hits the shot is also brilliant, as is the joy of the commentators.

[Thomas Dai]

I was recently rewatching the extended highlights of the 1984 Open. Was that tournament the apex of the combination of great players (Seve and Watson at the top of their games), course and playing conditions (TOC, a beautiful brown, playing firm and fast but without the need to have the tees outrageously moved as far back as possible to combat equipment), and equipment (persimmon woods, blades, balata balls, plus actual golf shoes with real metal spikes). It was everything I wish golf still could be at the highest level.

100%
And not just for and at the highest level either.
Atb

[Kalen Braley]

Seve was before my time, I only recall watching him a few times. While I can appreciate his swash-buckling schtick, sounds like he really needed to spend more time on the range with woods in hand.     Or perhaps have developed a tiger like 2 iron stinger?

[Kevin_Reilly]

Seve was before my time, I only recall watching him a few times. While I can appreciate his swash-buckling schtick, sounds like he really needed to spend more time on the range with woods in hand.     Or perhaps have developed a tiger like 2 iron stinger?

Not really.  See my post above about his finish at the 1987 US Open at Olympic Club....about as hard of a place to play if you missed a fairway.  His swagger was part of his playing DNA.  He lost a bit of it when he went down the golf swing rabbit hole with Mac O'Grady and other gurus.

[Peter Sayegh]

His swagger was part of his playing DNA.

Never associated "swagger" with Seve but it's very apt.
I doubt he ever faced a bad lie or obstacle he did not ENJOY trying to pull off.

[Tim Martin]

His swagger was part of his playing DNA.

Never associated "swagger" with Seve but it's very apt.
I doubt he ever faced a bad lie or obstacle he did not ENJOY trying to pull off.

Seve also ENJOYED embroiling himself in rules confrontations with referees and playing partners in an effort to seek an advantage which is part of the “gamesmanship” he is noted for.