The Lido Course Profile Now Live!

[John Challenger]

Thomas Dai, In regard to playing low. In 1902, John Low was the leader of the traditionalists on the R& A Rules Committee who wanted to ban the new Haskell ball in part because it made lofting the ball so much easier. He felt that the game would become less interesting possibly forever...and he was right.

After WW2, playing "high" became so easy that at most courses, Greens Committees realized the shape and form of the fairway ground really didn't matter much, so they flattened out the fairways and removed the cross-bunkers. It was less expensive to mow the grass. The small- and medium-sized undulations and intervening hazards were mostly irrelevant other than for visual curiosity. Hazards were only needed for green surrounds and tee shot landing areas. Today, high arcing shots are still the norm except around the green.

In recent years, more golf courses have upgraded their green complexes with short grass and undulations to spark creativity and thought. The new greens require players to develop a variety of short-game skill shots. Maybe it's time to extend the thinking to fairways and to make them matter, but then again, people would have to play low and the ground would have to be firm.

[Thomas Dai]

Fair points John. Interesting comment as what John Lows position was back many a decade ago. A position that has considerable merit.
The expansion in the use of irrigation firstly putting surfaces, then fairways/approaches has contributed significantly to the ease in playing the aerial game as well. Many a U.K. links and/or heathland course has changed radically since fairway/approach irrigation has been introduced and not for the better imo.
The era of bare fairways and players putting from way off the green Texas wedge style or of some players playing long distance chip-n-runs or even having a specialist short game club like a jigger or equivalent in the bag (my mother carried and extensively used a ‘Chipper’ from off the green to great effect) passed by a long time ago*.
Not sure about flattening fairways after WW2. Not in the U.K. at least. Not a lot of money around for that kind of work during that time period although filling-in bunkers was pretty common and many bunkers were also lost as lack of money meant less staff so trees and scrub were allowed to expand and cover them. Something that has fortunately been reversed at some courses recently where high profile renovations/restorations have been undertaken.
The trend for more short grass around greens on inland courses has become a bit more prevalent in the U.K. over the last few years but it’s not spend like wildfire. Would be nice if it did and if fairways in general were expanded considerably too. Green still seems to be God in the U.K. especially when it comes to inland/parkland golf.
Firm and fast and bouncy on free draining terrain combined with width and contour for choice.
Atb


* despite some club manufactures trying to make some £$ by reintroducing Chippers recently.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The best American golf course I played this year for sure, and pretty close even to the two best courses I saw overseas - County Down and Portrush

Come on...................

Pat, while it might not be in my top five, Lido is certainly in my top 20. I played it only once, but it is a course I want to play multiple times a year. I played Lawsonia with a Lido member. He is also a member at Shoreacres. He feels Lido is head and shoulders better. I wouldn't go that far, but the course is brilliant. CB used all his considerable skills and imagination to create this golfing wonder.

[Ulrich Mayring]

I'm not sure whether there is even such a thing as a "matchplay course" vs. a "strokeplay course". And I don't even know what a "difficult" course is supposed to be.
Difficult in terms of walking it? Yes, I can understand that - there are some courses that are a tough walk. Difficult in terms of being so narrow that I lose a lot of balls? Yes, I can understand that also. But I don't think that is what people mean, when they say a course is difficult. I think they mean "I'm shooting more over par than on other courses".
But why is that difficult? The owners could just increase or decrease par to make the course more or less difficult by that definition. So without changing a blade of grass on the course, they could make it supremely difficult or a pushover - but it is still the same effing course! So it's never the course that is difficult - it is the scorecard! And what would be easier to change than the scorecard? Hell, you could do that yourself on the first tee!

But you couldn't do that in a tournament or any kind of organised play, of course. However, the scorecard is the same for everyone, just as the course is the same for everyone. If you shoot a million over par in a strokeplay event, then everyone else playing in that event will so, too. So what is your problem?
The answer is: there is never a problem if you compete against other players. And it doesn't matter how score is kept (match, stroke, stableford play).
The only time a problem arises is if you play alone and, for lack of competition, decide to compete against expectations in your head. So my take is: if you want to compete, then seek out other golfers to compete against. It won't matter how "fair" or "difficult" the course is, because it is the same for everyone. But if you just want to enjoy, then stop competing. You can still rate the course as "great" or "stupid", but "difficult" is no category.

[Joe Zucker]

I'm not sure whether there is even such a thing as a "matchplay course" vs. a "strokeplay course". And I don't even know what a "difficult" course is supposed to be.
Difficult in terms of walking it? Yes, I can understand that - there are some courses that are a tough walk. Difficult in terms of being so narrow that I lose a lot of balls? Yes, I can understand that also. But I don't think that is what people mean, when they say a course is difficult. I think they mean "I'm shooting more over par than on other courses".
But why is that difficult? The owners could just increase or decrease par to make the course more or less difficult by that definition. So without changing a blade of grass on the course, they could make it supremely difficult or a pushover - but it is still the same effing course! So it's never the course that is difficult - it is the scorecard! And what would be easier to change than the scorecard? Hell, you could do that yourself on the first tee!

But you couldn't do that in a tournament or any kind of organised play, of course. However, the scorecard is the same for everyone, just as the course is the same for everyone. If you shoot a million over par in a strokeplay event, then everyone else playing in that event will so, too. So what is your problem?
The answer is: there is never a problem if you compete against other players. And it doesn't matter how score is kept (match, stroke, stableford play).
The only time a problem arises is if you play alone and, for lack of competition, decide to compete against expectations in your head. So my take is: if you want to compete, then seek out other golfers to compete against. It won't matter how "fair" or "difficult" the course is, because it is the same for everyone. But if you just want to enjoy, then stop competing. You can still rate the course as "great" or "stupid", but "difficult" is no category.

This is an interesting thought, but I disagree with it.  I think the Lido is a very difficult course.  In one regard, Ulrich is right and it does manifest it self in shooting more over par than I am used to.  However, when I think of the Lido as difficult, it was because there were many shots I'm used to executing well that I was not able to.  These were not shots from deep bunkers or in thick rough that I don't normally play, they were theoretically straight forward shots from the fairway.  Standing 150 yards out from the middle of the fairway is normally an "easy" shot.  At the Lido there is far more ground contouring and firmness than I've seen anywhere else.


Many times I hit a "good" shot that ended up no where close to the hole.  In reality, I hit the wrong shot for the course and conditions.  This made the course very difficult for me.  It asked radically different questions of my game than 99% of courses.  I'm sure I'd figure more out with another play, but the importance of angles and firmness made it very difficult for me.

[PCCraig]

The best American golf course I played this year for sure, and pretty close even to the two best courses I saw overseas - County Down and Portrush

Come on...................

Pat, while it might not be in my top five, Lido is certainly in my top 20. I played it only once, but it is a course I want to play multiple times a year. I played Lawsonia with a Lido member. He is also a member at Shoreacres. He feels Lido is head and shoulders better. I wouldn't go that far, but the course is brilliant. CB used all his considerable skills and imagination to create this golfing wonder.

The Lido is really cool. I played it twice this year and enjoyed it quite a bit. It's a very interesting and fun course. One that I look forward to playing again for sure.


My comment derives from the number of comments, such as Tim's, immediately putting Lido in the same class as some of the greatest ~10-20 courses in the world like RCD after 1 play.


I think it's pretty well documented that most resort guests rank the Lido as their least favorite course at the resort. So I find it interesting when so many on GCA are 180* from that sentiment and think it's Top 20 in the world. Certainly worth some frank discussion?  [size=78%] [/size]