GolfClubAtlas.com > Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group
The Lido Course Profile Now Live!
Pete Lavallee:
Mike,
You need to get started soon for 2026, as I believe 2025 is already fully booked!
Joe Zucker:
--- Quote from: MCirba on December 16, 2024, 05:30:49 PM ---I need to get to Sand Valley.
For those who've played both, how would you compare Lido to Old Macdonald? I suspect they share some similar qualities. I know I'm an outlier but OM is my favorite at Bandon.
--- End quote ---
I've played OM a couple times and the Lido only once. I would say the two courses are cousins, rather than a closer familial relationship. You see a lot of similarities in the templates and greens. But the landscape and dunes of Oregon make it feel quite a bit different in my view. The Lido feels "built" while OM is much more natural.
Tom_Doak:
--- Quote from: MCirba on December 16, 2024, 05:30:49 PM ---
For those who've played both, how would you compare Lido to Old Macdonald? I suspect they share some similar qualities. I know I'm an outlier but OM is my favorite at Bandon.
--- End quote ---
I would say the main difference is that the bunkers at Lido are deep and ferocious. At Old Mac, Mr. Keiser was not in favor of building such nasty bunkers for the retail golfer . . . at Lido, Michael encouraged us to follow the original course to a T, and when it was clear that the bunkers at Lido had changed in character through the years and we needed some direction on which way to go, Michael's input was to make them deep and the faces very steep.
At Old Macdonald we tried to hark back to the original links holes that were the templates for Macdonald's work, but generally, those original holes don't have 2-3-4 different lines of play to consider. Lido has several holes like 4, 6, 11, 15 and 18 where there are several different lines to choose from. It's a much more idealistic, theoretical design.
Thomas Dai:
“2. I was quite surprised at the level of detail in the fairway contours at Lido that were put into the plasticine model of the course and carried out faithfully by the contractors. SOMEONE spent a heck of a lot of time doodling ideas for contours to steer a tee shot or second shot around a certain bunker . . . I don't believe that much or any of those contours are random, but instead that they are the product of much more thought than I usually put into my own plans. I came away believing that C.B. Macdonald spent more time thinking about his design for Lido than anything after The National, and that's exactly why the reaction to the course has been so favorable. I have spent a lot of time at Chicago Golf Club over the years, and Chicago Golf is child's play in comparison to Lido.”
Thanks Tom.
Fascinating.
I recall looking at the fairway contouring in early-day photos of the Wisconsin Lido and pondering the thought and creation process of both the shaping work at the original Long Island venue and the Wisconsin course so thanks for the further details.
Atb
This section from John Challengers excellent post above is also of particular interest.
“Not only is the Lido built for match play, it's a course that plays more fun low. Hickory play is encouraged and a set is easily rented. Playing match play with hickories is a blast and not only because total score no longer matters. With undulations and hazards in abundance, every shot is new. Like St. Andrews, the fairway undulations at the Lido seem as molded and intentional as greens. It was a revelation. Playing hickories, each shot has the complexity of a chip shot because aim and height and where to the land the ball matter. Running a fairway ball on bouncy turf between two hazards or landing it on an angled bank is as much fun as daring to hit it over a hazard. I look for those shots with my regular clubs now.”
Oh how the game changes when clubs with considerably less loft are used (or are the only ones available or permitted) …. when the game is played as John says, low.
Each to their own but to me less loft requires greater creativity, a different thought process and a different skill set too. Aspects that have diminished in the game particularly with the introduction of lofted wedges with spinny grooves and multiple sole shapes.
Thoughts of Seve on the beach at Pedrena creating shots with a 3-iron come to mind rather than Mr and Miss Modern-Player hitting a billion shots with custom fitted high tech clubs from a flat lie on an immaculate driving range under the supervision of a swing guru.
Atb
Andrew Harvie:
--- Quote from: MCirba on December 16, 2024, 05:30:49 PM ---I need to get to Sand Valley.
For those who've played both, how would you compare Lido to Old Macdonald? I suspect they share some similar qualities. I know I'm an outlier but OM is my favorite at Bandon.
--- End quote ---
I don't really see many similarities, in all honesty. At Old Macdonald, the greens are large and more wavy or rolling, whereas Lido has more defined tiers, shelves, and sections. There are obvious differences in strategy, too: in most cases, Lido's trouble is scattered throughout the middle, whereas Old Macdonald is cutting in from the sides. There are centreline hazards and bunkers at Old Macdonald (10, 17 come to mind), but the difference there alone provides a much different experience from a playing standpoint. Spiritually, the courses might be linked by concept and at one point Old Mac might've been Lido, but Old Mac and Lido are separate things
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