[Robert Thompson]

The following is from the St. Andrews Web site. I wonder if with all the alterations, St. Andrews is in danger of becoming overly renovated, like Augusta, leaving little of the course intact.

Robert


11/12/03
Winter work on the Old - the relatively dry weather has allowed the greenkeepers at St Andrews to make good progress on the programme of winter work.

Work on the Old Course includes preparation for the 2005 Open Championship. Several bunkers on the course are being rebuilt, including well known signature bunkers, Hell, Shell and Cottage. Progress is also being made on new championship tees at the 2nd, 9th, 12th, 13th and 14th holes.

[Fido]

Rob.  Stove here.
     Its, as thay say, proggress. As these super-fit Golfers of today hit the ball for huge distances, the powers that be have to move with the times.

What other option have thay got, but to tweek the course.

But i think we are in danger of losing the basic lay-out of the Greats around the World

                        Stovepipe.

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

The golf world should leave the great old classic courses alone as far as yardage is concerned.

It is not possible to Tiger-proof them with the advances technology is making in the distance these pro players can hit the ball.

If we leave the courses at their present yardage(s), the pro players will be shooting 58 and 59 on a regular basis.

I think that when this happens, the governing bodies would be forced to reduce the distance factor. (of the ball)

If we don't, there will be no history left, either in the golf courses or the comparison of scores over the decades.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Good, I want to see some of the pros deal with hell in '05. There not doing away with the regular tees are they?

I had the chance to play 3 weeks before the open in '00 and I have to say that the bunker work was spectacular. I know Eddie Adams is lurking about and I would love to learn how Eddie and his guys rebuild the bunkers ...sleepers? ...foundations?...I've heard a number of stories. Any chance of learning the process?

[ForkaB]

The bunker re-building program is a perpetually ongoing one, like it or not, as we've discussed before on here.

As for the new tees, two months ago I was shown a rectangular cut in the ground which one of my playing partners(Sr. Fortson) told me was the new 9th Championship tee for TOC.  It was on the left side of the 8th fairway...............on the New Course!  About 60 yards short of that great 8th green.  Now if that is true, THAT is sacrilege!

[Eddie Adams]

The changes to the Old Course have been done for the 2005 Open Championship, the holes changed only affect the players who qualify for that tournament.  
    It does not change or interfere with the layout of the course that you or I would play and therefore we get the privelage of playing her as Mother Nature(and a few others) intended.
 

[Sr Fortson]

I, too, took note of the new tees at TOC during my visit last month.  With the exception of #9, which I agree with Rich, is sacrilege, I think that the other tees are unobtrusive and will not effect the average round, as mentioned by Eddie.  In addition, many of the new tees will bring some bunkers back into play for the big boys that had become obsolete.  As for the bunkering, again I agree with Mr. Goodale.  They are in constant state of being redone, which I feel is consistent with keeping the course in its historic condition.  I will say, however, that the greenside bunker on #17 has become absolutely impossible for me to get out going toward the green.  My only shot was to go sideways.

[ChipOat]

Robert Thompson:

Please provide one or two examples of where you believe Augusta National has been "over-renovated".

You're entitled to your opinion, and many (but not all) on this DG will agree with you, BUT:

Please support such a broad-based point of view with a hole or two that you believe documents your case.

It happens that I don't necessarily agree but I always enjoy seeing the topic discussed as I believe the issue of restoration/renovation is perhaps THE key issue regarding Golden Age layouts in this "turbo-technology" age that, I'm afraid, is here to stay.

[Brian Phillips]

There he is again.  The main man. Listen to what he says boys..

Brian

Changes at TOC have been ongoing since....well..since ever.  If we didn't change we would still be playing 22 holes the wrong way...

[Robert Thompson]

Chipoat:

From the Masters' Web site, and as an example, just for 2002:

No. 18   4   465   Masters tees moved back 55-60 yards and moved 5 yards to golfer's right. Adjust bunker complex by making bunkers approximately ten percent larger. Trees added left of fairway bunkers.

I think it is safe to say, from the reading I've done and many of the comments from people more in the know on this than me, that the course doesn't exist in the way MacKenzie envisioned.

For more detailed, check out:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/augusta000150.html


Robert

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