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What would be the Antithesis of the Great GCA Triumvirate's Golf Course Designs
zachary_car:
--- Quote from: Tom_Doak on Yesterday at 08:15:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: zachary_car on Yesterday at 07:29:00 PM ---
The sport analogy is interesting here, and one I'll adopt. Why is it that so many elite coordinators (Robert Saleh, being the most recent one) can't become successful head coaches? It's far different skill set being the person in charge, the editor so to speak, from being the second or third in command. You also need to hire your own crew, in turn (Nathaniel Hackett as his OC). Are the their own crews as skillfull as the ones on which they worked as the second or third in command? Maybe yes, maybe no. This happens in every profession, even in everyday life. Successful workers can't become successful managers.
I also think that, considering just how many talented people are chomping at the bit for their shot, nevermind the already established ones, there is alot of pressure to deliver right away. As such, alot of the new golf courses just seem to be trying way too hard, throwing the kitchen sink at it. The reality is that young architects likely don't have three or four new projects to work on and perfect their craft through trial and error anymore.
--- End quote ---
Successful workers CAN become successful managers. They may not want to, but as Steve Jobs once said, they do it when they realize they have to do it, in order to move the project forward to where they want. On my own team, Eric Iverson is certainly one of those guys who has taught others in order to move the overall company forward . . . and he also taught some of the guys who work for Bill Coore now.
But you are right about the pressure [self-imposed or Instagram-imposed] to be an IMMEDIATE success. In the pre-Internet era, it took me a dozen courses of trial and error to build my team and build some good courses and some so-so courses, to be ready for my shot at the big time. Getting good at something requires a lot of reps in practice. Brian Schneider has gotten a lot of practice at design and shaping while working on my projects, but running the show is something you can't really practice until you are doing it yourself.
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Yes, I should’ve mentioned more clearly that it is possible to be become a successful boss or head coach. But it’s difficult. And sometimes it’s the ones no one expects, like Dan Campbell!
zachary_car:
--- Quote from: Ben Sims on Yesterday at 08:44:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: zachary_car on Yesterday at 07:29:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ben Sims on Yesterday at 01:01:46 PM ---One thing this thread seems to gloss over—as does Zach Car in his post punk opinion piece and in the preview of Old Petty—is that a lot of what some are calling the “antithesis” of the triumvirate is being built by the same people that worked for and in many cases DID the work for the triumvirate.
It absolutely cheapens what Renaissance and C+C have done when you don’t fully appreciate their flexibility. Great teams can win using any phase of the game.
--- End quote ---
Well, I guess I should first officially apologize for the cheap swipe in that piece....little did I know what was coming down the pipeline. But we did communicate after, and I do look forward to seeing if Barnwell proves me wrong. At the end of the day, I am a nobody writer from Ottawa, Canada who never had a single connection in golf; if I never said anything, who would've ever taken notice of my stuff.....
The sport analogy is interesting here, and one I'll adopt. Why is it that so many elite coordinators (Robert Saleh, being the most recent one) can't become successful head coaches? It's far different skill set being the person in charge, the editor so to speak, from being the second or third in command. You also need to hire your own crew, in turn (Nathaniel Hackett as his OC). Are the their own crews as skillfull as the ones on which they worked as the second or third in command? Maybe yes, maybe no. This happens in every profession, even in everyday life. Successful workers can't become successful managers.
I also think that, considering just how many talented people are chomping at the bit for their shot, nevermind the already established ones, there is alot of pressure to deliver right away. As such, alot of the new golf courses just seem to be trying way too hard, throwing the kitchen sink at it. The reality is that young architects likely don't have three or four new projects to work on and perfect their craft through trial and error anymore.
--- End quote ---
Zach (do you prefer Zachary? Sorry if so),
I suppose I should stop beating this horse. I’ve been pretty deferential to associates and interns for a long time. I’m no dummy. Kirby Smart is who delivered my Dawgs to the promised land and not specifically Dan Lanning or Todd Monken. The program starts with Kirby just as Renaissance starts with Tom. Like him—I always feel the need to remind everyone that it’s a team effort and talent has to come from all contributors not just the top.
But yeah, sorry if it looked like I was taking a swipe over that topic again.
I don’t like the premise of this thread. It seems to fail a basic test of knowledge about what’s actually happening in the golf architecture world. Ethos and aesthetic are being conflated in an unhelpful way. Bottom line, there’s A LOT of projects that are new and open or about to be open. There’s talent to be deployed and that talent doesn’t always have to build what they used to for Tom or Bill. Being antithetical for the sake of being antithetical seems a way to fail miserably at being a golf architect. Good golf is good golf no matter what it looks like.
--- End quote ---
Zach or Zachary. Whatever. Been called worse!
It’s no problem at all. Like I said before, If you write things that everyone agrees with, then you probably didn’t write anything worthwhile!
Maybe in time I’ll be proven wrong. In fact, I hope I am because it’ll be better for all of us
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