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What would be the Antithesis of the Great GCA Triumvirate's Golf Course Designs
V_Halyard:
--- Quote from: Ben Stephens on November 21, 2024, 02:37:30 AM ---Dear GCA,
The Current Great GCA Triumvirate - Coore + Crenshaw, Doak and Hanse Golf Course Designs over the last quarter of a century has been a big influence/huge trendsetters on many golf course designs and approaches especially on GCA.
Design styles evolves over time as you have seen in the past. I have been very fortunate to work in both Architecture (buildings) and Golf Course Architecture and the evolution of both are similar and opposite at times. In GCA for me there is quite a lack of the opposite of a popular design trend compared with buildings, products and cars etc where there is more variety in design styles.
My question what would you interpret as the Antithesis of the Great GCA Triumvirate's designs?
Cheers
Ben
--- End quote ---
The premise needs some economic context as gca is a commercial endeavor. These projects are not pop up art galleries in SoHo or Santa Monica.
Most clients retain these GCA’s with expectation of the delivery of design styles that the lead the pack and marketplace. These clients are not seeking splattered paint all over a Topo map masquerading as evolution.
Many artists evolve subtly, others, like one of my former bosses, the late musician Prince thrived on creative disruption.
The “triumvirate” have evolved and experimented in their tenure. Your premise that they ‘have not’ seems to be searching for an unrealistic level of seismic disruption. That is not a prerequisite of evolution, especially in a successful business.
Contemporary GCA clients of today are not retaining “the triumvirate” for millions of dollars to deliver pop up golf art. It is a production driven marketplace and clients hire the leading producers to deliver hits.
Tim_Weiman:
--- Quote from: Sean_A on November 22, 2024, 04:01:16 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ben Stephens on November 21, 2024, 09:13:34 AM ---
--- Quote from: Sean_A on November 21, 2024, 08:16:54 AM ---Ben
The building architecture examples isn't giving me a sense of what you mean for golf architecture.
Ciao
--- End quote ---
If you seen the roof forms of Eisenman's proposal - that could be recreated in big and bold landforms and you thread holes through the lower parts or over them.
I would conclude that Building Architecture is far more advanced and has much greater variety when it comes to design styles than golf course design which seems to be rather monotonous at present ie everyone doing similar work not one out of the box
--- End quote ---
My guess is you don’t really know what is the opposite of what is being built now. The building architecture references don’t help me understand where you are going with this thread.
I believe we have a wider variety of architecture now than has probably ever existed. All sorts of stuff from true minimalism to complete build from scratch to geometric to naturalism to flat to mountain to desert to reversible to short yardage to long yardage etc etc is happening. I guess you are difficult to satisfy.
To be honest, there is so much happening right now that I can’t even keep up let alone try to play most of these courses.
If you are talking about a trend to take over, again, I don’t think I want a new trend. What is happening now is awesome and extremely varied. I have no desire to see the current trend end because I don’t know what will come next and what we have is outstanding. I played a reversible 9 hole course which can also be played in multiple ways in terms of jumping around. Short grass everywhere. Seriously small property. Built from nothing. I am not too worried about bunker styles. 😎.
Ciao
--- End quote ---
Sean,
I agree. The building references don’t do anything for me.
Tim
Ben Sims:
One thing this thread seems to gloss over—as does Zach Car in his post punk opinion piece and in the preview of Old Petty—is that a lot of what some are calling the “antithesis” of the triumvirate is being built by the same people that worked for and in many cases DID the work for the triumvirate.
It absolutely cheapens what Renaissance and C+C have done when you don’t fully appreciate their flexibility. Great teams can win using any phase of the game.
Ira Fishman:
I do not buy the premise that Hanse should be lumped together with C&C and Doak in terms of design approach/ethos. My sample size is small but neither PH4 or SS Black are minimalist. Castle Stuart is faux links which I do not see the other architects embracing as an approach although I know that it was the brief given to Hanse. In terms of the SS courses that represent all of the Triumvirate, Black is very different from Red and Blue
Perhaps I am biased because I have a higher regard for the C&C and Doak courses I have played. The Big 3 or the Great Triumvirate might be a catchy categorization, but it is not an accurate one.
Ira Fishman:
--- Quote from: V_Halyard on November 22, 2024, 06:03:57 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ben Stephens on November 21, 2024, 02:37:30 AM ---Dear GCA,
The Current Great GCA Triumvirate - Coore + Crenshaw, Doak and Hanse Golf Course Designs over the last quarter of a century has been a big influence/huge trendsetters on many golf course designs and approaches especially on GCA.
Design styles evolves over time as you have seen in the past. I have been very fortunate to work in both Architecture (buildings) and Golf Course Architecture and the evolution of both are similar and opposite at times. In GCA for me there is quite a lack of the opposite of a popular design trend compared with buildings, products and cars etc where there is more variety in design styles.
My question what would you interpret as the Antithesis of the Great GCA Triumvirate's designs?
Cheers
Ben
--- End quote ---
The premise needs some economic context as gca is a commercial endeavor. These projects are not pop up art galleries in SoHo or Santa Monica.
Most clients retain these GCA’s with expectation of the delivery of design styles that the lead the pack and marketplace. These clients are not seeking splattered paint all over a Topo map masquerading as evolution.
Many artists evolve subtly, others, like one of my former bosses, the late musician Prince thrived on creative disruption.
The “triumvirate” have evolved and experimented in their tenure. Your premise that they ‘have not’ seems to be searching for an unrealistic level of seismic disruption. That is not a prerequisite of evolution, especially in a successful business.
Contemporary GCA clients of today are not retaining “the triumvirate” for millions of dollars to deliver pop up golf art. It is a production driven marketplace and clients hire the leading producers to deliver hits.
--- End quote ---
Spot on. Let’s not lose sight that the “prevailing” trend is barely 30 years old and was driven by the economic success of Sand Hills, Bandon, etc. King and Collins seem to be having a good run with a different design ethos. If those projects are successful, you are likely to see more developers adopting that approach.
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