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Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
The best rough I’ve ever seen
« on: Yesterday at 01:41:16 PM »
This conversation comes up from time to time. Theres a course I played this summer in Scotland that has perhaps the best rough and native areas I’ve ever seen. Ballyneal tends to cover its competition in my mind in part because of your ability to find your ball and play it, even if it’s really hard to properly judge how it’ll come out of the various lies you find off the fairway. Are there any courses you’ve played where the rough and native areas were notable for ease of locating balls while also being somewhat challenging to recover?

Michael Felton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best rough I’ve ever seen
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 03:39:22 PM »
This conversation comes up from time to time. Theres a course I played this summer in Scotland that has perhaps the best rough and native areas I’ve ever seen. Ballyneal tends to cover its competition in my mind in part because of your ability to find your ball and play it, even if it’s really hard to properly judge how it’ll come out of the various lies you find off the fairway. Are there any courses you’ve played where the rough and native areas were notable for ease of locating balls while also being somewhat challenging to recover?


Best example of this I can think of was at Notts (Hollinwell). This is going back a pretty long way, but I played in the British Universities there in 1996. The fescue was 18-24 inches long and horrible to get out of, but it didn't have that thick stuff at the bottom you frequently get with fescue, so it was hard to lose your ball. You'd always find it, but it was tough.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The best rough I’ve ever seen
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 04:55:37 PM »
This conversation comes up from time to time. Theres a course I played this summer in Scotland that has perhaps the best rough and native areas I’ve ever seen. Ballyneal tends to cover its competition in my mind in part because of your ability to find your ball and play it, even if it’s really hard to properly judge how it’ll come out of the various lies you find off the fairway. Are there any courses you’ve played where the rough and native areas were notable for ease of locating balls while also being somewhat challenging to recover?


Some of the best rough is at the smaller courses with no budget to manage it . . . in such places the foot traffic helps to manage it.  If you hit the ball into a popular spot, the grass will be thinner and you're more likely to find it.  If you hit one way wide left into the hay, it's probably gone.  [Also . . . if you hit it a lot further than the normal folk, you'd better be straighter.]


Darwin would have liked this theory.  Charles, not Bernard.

Colin Sheehan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best rough I’ve ever seen
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 05:15:09 PM »
I suppose we need to make the distinction between the rough off the fairway and around the greens and the "long rough" beyond it.

This is always a subject of conversation at projects. How can it be whispy and playable but not thick and lead to search parties? I'm reminded of the late Jim Arthur who advocated for an impoverished soil and how that's what's often so good about links courses when managed correctly.

Of course the best rough is no rough at all! Ohoopee has a pace or two of relatively short rough off the before before it transitions into a wonderful native that is full of an attractive mix of flora indigenous to the Ohoopee dunes. And yet, when you hit the ball off line, as I often do, to the point where you think it is completely gone, you almost always wind up walking right to it. It is very easy to spot your ball from 30 or 40 yards away.

I always loved the native at Colorado Golf Club. I thought that was some of the prettiest and most playable native on a new course.

The worst long rough is when it's thick meadow grasses (that people erroneously call fescue) that are irrigated on heavier soil. That is the worst of all scenarios, especially in the spring. That type of grass gets so thick it falls over on itself and is closer to being an agricultural crop that grass.

Where I grew up caddying and playing the Country Club of Fairfield, they grew out of play areas on holes 2 and 15 and 18 and it was a disaster. Thick, often-wet, matted grass with messy seed heads, full of ticks and long, and it almost always induced a search party. Usually auto lost ball and if you did find it, an unplayable shot, especially for the ladies.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:20:21 PM by Colin Sheehan »

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best rough I’ve ever seen
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 05:54:45 PM »
The wispy rough at both Shinnecock and The Country Club is terrific, in my opinion. With the caveat that you really need a forecaddie. As long as you have an spotter out there ahead of you, you’ll pretty much never lose a ball, and you can typically play it. But how it’ll come out can be a guess, which makes it more interesting.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: The best rough I’ve ever seen
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 08:11:18 PM »
This conversation comes up from time to time. Theres a course I played this summer in Scotland that has perhaps the best rough and native areas I’ve ever seen. Ballyneal tends to cover its competition in my mind in part because of your ability to find your ball and play it, even if it’s really hard to properly judge how it’ll come out of the various lies you find off the fairway. Are there any courses you’ve played where the rough and native areas were notable for ease of locating balls while also being somewhat challenging to recover?


Some of the best rough is at the smaller courses with no budget to manage it . . . in such places the foot traffic helps to manage it.  If you hit the ball into a popular spot, the grass will be thinner and you're more likely to find it.  If you hit one way wide left into the hay, it's probably gone.  [Also . . . if you hit it a lot further than the normal folk, you'd better be straighter.]


Darwin would have liked this theory.  Charles, not Bernard.


Are you saying Charles Darwin would’ve loved the modern tour pro’s insistence on proportional penalty for a miss? (Rubs chin)

Simon Barrington

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best rough I’ve ever seen
« Reply #6 on: Today at 02:21:25 AM »
This conversation comes up from time to time. Theres a course I played this summer in Scotland that has perhaps the best rough and native areas I’ve ever seen. Ballyneal tends to cover its competition in my mind in part because of your ability to find your ball and play it, even if it’s really hard to properly judge how it’ll come out of the various lies you find off the fairway. Are there any courses you’ve played where the rough and native areas were notable for ease of locating balls while also being somewhat challenging to recover?

Some of the best rough is at the smaller courses with no budget to manage it . . . in such places the foot traffic helps to manage it.  If you hit the ball into a popular spot, the grass will be thinner and you're more likely to find it.  If you hit one way wide left into the hay, it's probably gone.  [Also . . . if you hit it a lot further than the normal folk, you'd better be straighter.]

Darwin would have liked this theory.  Charles, not Bernard.

Are you saying Charles Darwin would’ve loved the modern tour pro’s insistence on proportional penalty for a miss? (Rubs chin)
JH Taylor & Peter Lees would like to join that conversation... :o

There is a nod to such "victorian" concepts and design features returning of late (in moderation, and when relevant for the land not just as an affectation) which I find really interesting (e.g. Cops at Old Barnwell etc.)
A Dye-like desire for difference, and less group think.
Should we accept that the clear distinction between Penal & Strategic was artifically exaggerated and a mix of the two is when architecture can get really good...Pine Valley as the prime example...
« Last Edit: Today at 03:23:34 AM by Simon Barrington »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best rough I’ve ever seen
« Reply #7 on: Today at 04:15:20 AM »
Didn't some Dr from Leeds say "There should be a complete absence of the annoyance and irritation caused by the necessity of looking for lost balls."! :)
As to managed rough, Stinchcombe Hill in Gloucestershire seems to operate sensibly ..... wider than usual fairways, wide first cut at a slightly higher length than normal first cut thus slowing offline rolling shots down and then for most of the year due to ground nesting birds, hay.
atb

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