[Rob Marshall]

https://golf.com/travel/courses/best-golf-courses-united-states-2024-2025/

[Tom_Doak]

Summary:  I think there are four new courses in the list:


#30 Lido [which had already made the top 100 in the world]
#51 Old Barnwell [congrats to Brian and Blake]
#87 Ladera
#88 Pinehurst No. 10


All of the other changes are just shuffling or newly restored courses coming back onto the list [Medinah, Interlachen, etc.]


If they had a list of which eleven courses fell off the ranking, I didn't see it.

[Paul Jones]

I have heard quite a bit about Lido, Old Barnwell and Pinehurst 10... I have seen very little about Ladera. 


How does Ladera compare to Brambles?

[Paul Jones]

Summary:  I think there are four new courses in the list:


#30 Lido [which had already made the top 100 in the world]
#51 Old Barnwell [congrats to Brian and Blake]
#87 Ladera
#88 Pinehurst No. 10


All of the other changes are just shuffling or newly restored courses coming back onto the list [Medinah, Interlachen, etc.]


If they had a list of which eleven courses fell off the ranking, I didn't see it.

This is what I have for courses falling off when comparing the 2022 list:

Glens Falls

Congaree

Streamsong (Blue)

Calusa Pines

Prairie Club (Dunes)

Davenport

Brookside

Sheep Ranch

Sand Valley

Palmetto

Pinehurst (#4)

[Tom_Doak]

How does Ladera compare to Brambles?

I was out that way a week or two ago, and asked a local about Ladera.  He said the owner only wants 1-2 groups per day out there.  So I didn't try to go see it.


Edit:  Thanks for the list, Paul.  Did they publish it with the article?  Sad to see Streamsong (Blue) drop off, I think that is one of our best courses.

[David Jones]

Here's the list




I wrote a few lines about it here too. Will be interesting what happens to some of these in next year's world list.


https://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/golf-magazine-us-top-100

[Eric LeFante]

Hollywood in NJ with the biggest jump up the list, 14 spots to 75. Wonderful bunkering and fantastic greens.


Ridgewood is surprising. The East / West nines were 74th two years ago, the championship course was rated this year and dropped to 85. The championship routing is significantly better than East / West since the championship routing takes out some of the weaker holes from East / West and adds some great holes like the five and dime so I don't understand this one.

[Paul Jones]

How does Ladera compare to Brambles?



I was out that way a week or two ago, and asked a local about Ladera.  He said the owner only wants 1-2 groups per day out there.  So I didn't try to go see it.

Edit:  Thanks for the list, Paul.  Did they publish it with the article?  Sad to see Streamsong (Blue) drop off, I think that is one of our best courses.

I did not see a publish list, just did a comparison from Rudo's spreadsheet.

[Keith Phillips]

Hollywood in NJ with the biggest jump up the list, 14 spots to 75. Wonderful bunkering and fantastic greens.


Ridgewood is surprising. The East / West nines were 74th two years ago, the championship course was rated this year and dropped to 85. The championship routing is significantly better than East / West since the championship routing takes out some of the weaker holes from East / West and adds some great holes like the five and dime so I don't understand this one.

I agree, Eric.  Played the composite last year and loved it.  I have it ahead of Somerset Hills and Plainfield, both of which I also rate highly.  Hollywood is also fantastic - Brian Schneider on a roll.  His work at Montclair Golf Club is stellar, and continuing this winter with the 4th nine.

[Ben Sims]

I don’t mind being the one to say it; it just seems so obvious how good this list is versus other competing publications. It’s not perfect, no course rankings list is. But there isn’t a course on this Top 100 that I think is undeserving of its place +/- 10 spots. I can’t remember thinking that before.


One small nit. If the panel appreciates NGLA, Fishers, Chicago, Shoreacres, Camargo, Sleepy Hollow, Yeamans, Creek, Piping Rock, Fox Chapel, and St Louis (not to mention Lido and Old Macdonald)…surely there’s room for Blue Mound too?

[Tim Gallant]

No Cape Wickham?! It's a fix!! 


In all honesty, it's neat to see the list, and I'm really happy for Brian and Blake @ Old Barnwell. I'll be up to see Lido hopefully next year, and will be curious to see any similarities between the two.

[John Blain]

Three surprises at first glance:


1) Kiawah Island (Ocean) @ #37? Seriously?


2) Hard to believe Wannamoisett isn't Top 100.  One of my all-time favorite Ross courses.


3) PH #10 already in the Top 100?

[Ryan Book]

Hollywood had the largest jump of any course that was previously on the list, but as Fox Chapel re-entered the list at no. 82, its rise was at the very least 18 spots. Just a note.

Hollywood in NJ with the biggest jump up the list, 14 spots to 75. Wonderful bunkering and fantastic greens.


Ridgewood is surprising. The East / West nines were 74th two years ago, the championship course was rated this year and dropped to 85. The championship routing is significantly better than East / West since the championship routing takes out some of the weaker holes from East / West and adds some great holes like the five and dime so I don't understand this one.

[PCCraig]

Obviously I personally don't love seeing White Bear drop 15 spots in two years, second only to Gamble Sands in # of spots dropped.


However, I'm hopeful that with the extensive work completed there this past year and the Club's commitment to firm & fast turf it'll start climbing the list again to a more appropriate grouping. Like the Top 25. 

[Mike Hendren]

Ben, while Yeamans Hall has a unique and sublime vibe, in the GCA 10 rounds comparison I’d play 8 at Blue Mound
- as good a set of greens as one will find in the country.

[Ben Sims]

Ben, while Yeamans Hall has a unique and sublime vibe, in the GCA 10 rounds comparison I’d play 8 at Blue Mound
- as good a set of greens as one will find in the country.

Thanks for this. BMGCC remains in a very select tier of places I need to play some time. Along with about ten on the Golf Mag list above.

[Jeff Schley]

Valley Club dropping 9 and Wade Hampton 7.  Hard to see VC dropping out of the top 50, I have it in my top 30.

[J_ Crisham]

I don’t mind being the one to say it; it just seems so obvious how good this list is versus other competing publications. It’s not perfect, no course rankings list is. But there isn’t a course on this Top 100 that I think is undeserving of its place +/- 10 spots. I can’t remember thinking that before.


One small nit. If the panel appreciates NGLA, Fishers, Chicago, Shoreacres, Camargo, Sleepy Hollow, Yeamans, Creek, Piping Rock, Fox Chapel, and St Louis (not to mention Lido and Old Macdonald)…surely there’s room for Blue Mound too?

Ben,  Our hope is that the restoration work that is just winding down as we speak will really move the needle. Its really impressive what's been done by Bruce Heppner an dour Supt Alex. Very few courses are maintained as well day in and day out as BMGCC. In the Midwest I would submit that Old Elm and CGC are it's only peers in that regard.

[Brian Finn]

I don’t mind being the one to say it; it just seems so obvious how good this list is versus other competing publications. It’s not perfect, no course rankings list is. But there isn’t a course on this Top 100 that I think is undeserving of its place +/- 10 spots. I can’t remember thinking that before.

One small nit. If the panel appreciates NGLA, Fishers, Chicago, Shoreacres, Camargo, Sleepy Hollow, Yeamans, Creek, Piping Rock, Fox Chapel, and St Louis (not to mention Lido and Old Macdonald)…surely there’s room for Blue Mound too?

I wholeheartedly agree on your first point. 

Regarding the MacDonald / Raynor list, isn't this really just a case of there being ~200 courses that could realistically make a top 100 list?  The line is drawn at #100, but whatever course would be #125 is extremely close in quality (perhaps indiscernible) to #75.  Whether a conscious decision or not, I doubt many rankers/raters include every top tier Raynor (or Ross, or Doak) in their top 100.  Personally, I have played ~40 courses I think are clear "top 100" quality (~Doak 8+), with at least 100 more that few people would argue are "in the conversation," and I've only seen about half of any of the US or world lists. 

[Tom_Doak]

On the old old GOLF DIGEST ranking (pre-1985), they just listed the “Second 50” alphabetically, and honestly, I am starting to think that was the way to do it.  Going “up 7” is fairly random and pointless.

[David Wuthrich]

Good point Tom, but then what would people have to talk about!!!

[Ally Mcintosh]

On the old old GOLF DIGEST ranking (pre-1985), they just listed the “Second 50” alphabetically, and honestly, I am starting to think that was the way to do it.  Going “up 7” is fairly random and pointless.

I didn’t know they did that. I’ve been lobbying for that - unsuccessfully - with the Irish Top-100 for years.

[Tim Martin]

Hollywood in NJ with the biggest jump up the list, 14 spots to 75. Wonderful bunkering and fantastic greens.


Ridgewood is surprising. The East / West nines were 74th two years ago, the championship course was rated this year and dropped to 85. The championship routing is significantly better than East / West since the championship routing takes out some of the weaker holes from East / West and adds some great holes like the five and dime so I don't understand this one.

I agree, Eric.  Played the composite last year and loved it.  I have it ahead of Somerset Hills and Plainfield, both of which I also rate highly.  Hollywood is also fantastic - Brian Schneider on a roll.  His work at Montclair Golf Club is stellar, and continuing this winter with the 4th nine.

Keith-Best of luck with the work on the Banks nine which is terrific. The 1st green is an all timer.

[Kevin_Reilly]

See my tagline below (which should disqualify me from commenting but that's no fun), but the whole list is meaningless.  For example, Pasatiempo drops 9?  In my view as much as I love Pasa, it should be on a holiday from the list as it has been 9 holes only for last year-plus.  And how many panelists have played the updated Olympic, Oakland Hills, or Medinah #3?


What has improved at Pebble (or negative changes in the courses above it) to justify a 2-position rise?  Did the slightly lower bunker profile on Sand Hills #7 cause it to drop one spot?  In what universe was Sheep Ranch ever one of the top 100 courses in the US?  The Valley Club is now 58 instead of 49...what happened there (probably nothing)? 


Etc etc. 


To expand on Tom's point above, the old GD groupings of courses by "First Ten, Second Ten..." was better IMO, with courses listed in each grouping alphabetically. 


PS, re some comments about True Blue.  I am not familiar with the course at all, but the name itself possibly sabotages its rating.  No idea about the name origin, but just as I view "Pete Dye Golf Club" or "Robert Trent Jones Golf Club" as horrible names for a golf club, I'd put TB in same category.  Maybe even worse.

[Craig Sweet]

The courses that have fallen off the Top 100 are no longer any good....

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