[Steven Wade]

The title pretty much covers it, but I'll elaborate a bit. Does anyone else find it strange (or perhaps know any reason) that Dream Golf and Hanse have never worked together? Four golf developments and  *checks notes* ... a whole lot of golf courses and Hanse/Wagner not on any of them. I realize that there are many other golf course architects who have also not designed one of their courses, but when a member of the current "big three" hasn't been included in any of the current or future plans, it makes me wonder. I think I remember talk of Hanse doing one of the Sand Valley courses, but then he obviously didn't.


I'm not trying to cultivate any drama here, and I'm aware that a participant here does work closely with the Keisers. I just wondered if there was a story behind this other than, "They just have their small core (no pun intended) of architects that they like work with."

[David Schofield]

The list of architects that have not worked for the Keisers is quite long.

[Tom_Doak]

Maybe they think David Kidd is the third guy in the “big 3”?  For sure, there is some loyalty there due to past success, and a comfort level in having a good rapport already.


Actually Gil was alll l lined up to do the Bandon Muni if they’d gotten the land swap done, so that was just a bad break.  But I do know that Mr Keiser (Sr) wasn’t a fan of the wild greens at Streamsong Black, and that bumped Gil down on the pecking order for a while. 


I was further down their list for a while, myself, until Mike saw Tara Iti and remembered what we were capable of.  So the pecking order is always in flux. Not to mention the fact that Michael and Chris are very interested in the abilities of Bill’s associates and mine, and once one of us has anchored a new facility, they don’t need big names for the rest of the courses at Rodeo Dunes.

[Steven Wade]

But I do know that Mr Keiser (Sr) wasn’t a fan of the wild greens at Streamsong Black, and that bumped Gil down on the pecking order for a while. 


I was further down their list for a while, myself, until Mike saw Tara Iti and remembered what we were capable of.  So the pecking order is always in flux. Not to mention the fact that Michael and Chris are very interested in the abilities of Bill’s associates and mine, and once one of us has anchored a new facility, they don’t need big names for the rest of the courses at Rodeo Dunes.

Thank you. This makes total sense and I appreciate you commenting. I hoped you might offer some insights, but also felt it might not be possible for you to answer.


Again, I realize (as was pointed out to me in the first reply, as well as in my original post) that most architects haven’t built a Keiser course. A few buddies of mine and I have discussed this topic in chats or after rounds and we always wondered if there was some history, philosophical differences, or just that he’d never been considered? Perhaps if the Bandon Muni had come together and gone well, he’d be somewhere in the pecking order? Thanks again.

[Matt_Cohn]

(I have no inside information on this.) Perhaps it's just that Doak and Coore+Crenshaw have been consistently better until very recently. On Golf Magazine's new list, Hanse has 3 in the Top 100—they opened in 2018, 2021, and 2023. Doak's courses on that list go back to 2001, and Coore+Crenshaw's to 1999. Perhaps Keiser felt that Hanse's original designs, at least up until the last few years, just weren't as reliably good as those other two firms.

[Matthew Galloway]

But I do know that Mr Keiser (Sr) wasn’t a fan of the wild greens at Streamsong Black, and that bumped Gil down on the pecking order for a while. 

Can confirm this. I had the pleasure of caddying for Mr Keiser (sr) that afternoon he played Streamsong Black with 3 of his retail golfer friends and got to overhear a few of the conversations they had about a few of the greens (14 lasted a while). That day remains in the top 5 of my looping experiences getting the pleasure to get to know Mr Keiser a little.

[Steven Wade]

But I do know that Mr Keiser (Sr) wasn’t a fan of the wild greens at Streamsong Black, and that bumped Gil down on the pecking order for a while. 

Can confirm this. I had the pleasure of caddying for Mr Keiser (sr) that afternoon he played Streamsong Black with 3 of his retail golfer friends and got to overhear a few of the conversations they had about a few of the greens (14 lasted a while). That day remains in the top 5 of my looping experiences getting the pleasure to get to know Mr Keiser a little.

This would be an incredible loop to eavesdrop on.

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