Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.

[Matt_Cohn]

It honestly just seems like LM's just proud of their reno-redo (redovation?) and wanted to invite some golf nerds to appreciate it.

One of the things I love, LOVE about Lake Merced is their willingness to share their course with others. They host more tournaments than any other top-level club I'm familiar with.


In the first 18 months after reopening from their renovation, they hosted the California State Amateur (which they do every 6 years), the NorCal PGA Section Championship, the NCPGA Player Teacher Forum, and US Open Final Qualifying—and for those who aren't elite players, the Fried Egg event and the NCGA Four Ball (net) Match Play Challenge, as well as the NCGA Rules Seminar. Most years they have NCGA Play Days, and for many years also hosted the NCGA Junior Championship every summer. Plus, if you go to any big charity golf auction, there's a good chance you'll see a foursome for Lake Merced on offer.


SFGC certainly doesn't follow that model, which is fine. And it shouldn't affect strict rankings. But there's no question that LMGC's willingness to share what they have contributes strongly to the high regard that so many of us have for it.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Joel
Interesting take. Any Olympic-bias aside, the post-Hanse work (whether it’s a renovation or restoration is not important) puts the Lake’s back 9 as the best in the Bay Area w/ Pasatiempo #2 (is this the Bay Area still?). I know the Lake gets a lot of “hate”, but it really shouldn’t nowadays.
The Lake’s back 9 has a solid mix of short (hole #15, 17, 18), medium (10, 12, 14), and long (11, 13, 16). Some straight (11, 12, 17, 18), some doglegs (10, 14, 16). Some uphill (11, 17, 18), some flat or slightly downhill (12). Some flattish greens, and some with (mild) undulations. There is also an excellent mix a half pars… some half-par easier (15, 17, 18) and some half-par more difficult (11, 14, 16). The routing is solid with holes going in all directions, unlike Cal Club and SFGC which have too many back-n-forth in their inward nine. As for LMGC, its 16-18 are somewhat cramped, and 18 will be especially tight when the trees grow in on the right.
IMHO, SFGC gets a pass for its exclusivity and near flawless conditions (being that it gets 12 rounds a day!). Cal Club also for its access limitations and its unique turf/playing surface.
At the end of the day, all four courses are exceptional and must plays, and I’d certainly rank the Lake’s front 9 #4 among them. But for my money, the back, actually the last 10 holes to be frank, are best in SF.
 
WW

[David_Tepper]

"for many years also hosted the NCGA Junior Championship every summer."

Matt -

Lake Merced has also hosted the both the USGA Junior Boys (1990) and Girls (2012).

I saw Tiger play as a 15-year old in the 1990 event.  I think he lost in the semis that year, before winning the event 3 years in a row.

I also saw some of the 2012 final, when Min Jee Lee beat Alison Lee. 

Lake Merced also hosted an LPGA tournament several times within the past 10 years.

DT


p.s. Random question - Are Min Jee Lee and Min Woo Lee the only sister-brother to win USGA Junior championshps?

[Matt Schoolfield]

Matt, I'm not sure SFGC has the chops to pass those ahead of it, even if it had more raters. Yes, it is a wonderful course, however let's take a look at the GM courses ahead of them.  Who would they pass?

Would that actually help SFGC to move up to say 19? Probably not worth the openness and access in the members minds, or they would do so.

I don't care much what SFGC does. I don't care much about these stupid lists either. I'm just not mentioning SFGC in a thread about the best nine holes in the bay area, not because I think theirs is a bad course, but because they've maintained a situation where I, a local golf nerd, have nothing of substance to say about them.

[Ira Fishman]

Matt, I'm not sure SFGC has the chops to pass those ahead of it, even if it had more raters. Yes, it is a wonderful course, however let's take a look at the GM courses ahead of them.  Who would they pass?

Would that actually help SFGC to move up to say 19? Probably not worth the openness and access in the members minds, or they would do so.

I don't care much what SFGC does. I don't care much about these stupid lists either. I'm just not mentioning SFGC in a thread about the best nine holes in the bay area, not because I think theirs is a bad course, but because they've maintained a situation where I, a local golf nerd, have nothing of substance to say about them.

Yet you did.

[Matt Schoolfield]

I'm just not mentioning SFGC in a thread about the best nine holes in the bay area, not because I think theirs is a bad course, but because they've maintained a situation where I, a local golf nerd, have nothing of substance to say about them.

Yet you did.

No, Tom did. I was just responding to him about how our silence wasn't disrespect.

[Michael Morandi]

Those of us who live in the S.F. area are lucky to have these great courses and each deserves to be proud of their efforts toward excellence. But there is one course that the best local players want to and love to play.

[Mark_Fine]

The ASGCA is hosting their annual meeting this coming week in San Francisco.  We have three courses in the line up to play including The Lake Course at Olympic, The Meadow Club (which isn’t talked about much here and should be) and Berkeley CC which is the Robert Hunter/Willie Watson design that the ASGCA members will appreciate and are going to love.  As someone said, SF has a lot a great courses and as much as this site is infatuated with lists and rankings (seems half the threads these days are about what is best or rating something,…) it is hard to pick favorites.  SFGC is a 10 for overall golf experience but as I said before, Berkeley which few know about, is very cool and under the radar.  It has so many unique holes, great greens and a solid routing by Hunter on a very challenging site. The views alone are hands down the best of any course out there!  It’s a treat.  Play it if you can. 

[Shane Wright]

When I first read Joel's post, I wondered how he would compare the back nine at LMGC with the first nine at SF Club.  At SF, aside from the 8th which is good but not great (relatively short uphill par 4), the first nine has to be among the best in golf.

You're making me break my habit of logging on to GCA more than once a month.


Obviously I thought about SFGC and I've played there more than most.  The strength of SFGC are the par 4s which are all fantastic, except for #8 which was Tilly's only option to get from the lowest spot on the course back up to the ridge.


I see the front as:


1. Medium length par 5. straight to a pushed up green that slopes back to front. Nothing special.


2. World class


3. Great


4. Long par 3 with a lot of bunkers. Completely manufactured, another pushed up green that slopes hard back to front. Nothing special.


5. Great


6. Great.


7. Great and historic.


8. Worst hole on the course. Uphill. blind second shot, tricked up green.


9. Okay, nothing great. Its harder now that Tom put in a new back tee but its still a long straight par 5 with 11 bunkers scattered randomly making it an obstacle course which is similar to the 18th at Lake Merced.


The back 9 is really good and I could make a case its better than the front.


 

Joel - I think you started this topic - better keep that login logged in.

[Tom Birkert]

My vote would be for the front 9 at Cal Club.


1 is a handshake par 5 but with a wicked green
2 has a wide open drive and seemingly open approach shot but another great green complex
3 might be the best hole on the course, a drive through a chute to a wonderfully bunkered approach shot
4 is a true par 5 off the back tees with a massive green full of great pin positions
5 is a short par 4 with a relatively difficult tee shot that encourages you to either lay back or have a half wedge into an elevated green due to the position of the bunkers
6 is a brilliant table top par 3
7 a superb risk / reward Cape short par 4, where you aim can be 70 yards apart depending on the wind.
8 a long downhill par 3
9 a great dogleg left to another fantastic green complex

[JC Urbina]

I thought I would weigh  in on the topic with a side note.


Does a back nine or front nine have to have par 5s to qualify as the best?


Does any nine or 18 holes have to have a series of par 5s par 4s and par 3s to qualify as great.


Or does the back nine at Lake Merced  or any golf course just have to be fun and exciting golf not withstanding par?

[Ben Malach]

For public golf the best 9 in the Bay area is the Back 9 at the championship course at Poppy ridge.


As for best overall,
 
I really like the back 9 at Passa, the front at Cal and the Back 9 at SFGC.


any of those three feel like the right answer. Might be in the minority that feels that SFGC is the most complete course in the Bay Area. I really enjoyed my time there on Monday.


As for the rest I feel that Pasa and the Cal Club are nipping at SFGC's heels. With Olympic and Merced being fine courses that are just a step or two behind the others mention. I haven't been to Orinda or The Meadow club

[Matt_Cohn]

For public golf the best 9 in the Bay area is the Back 9 at the championship course at Poppy ridge.

I sure hope you’re right!

[Joel_Stewart]

I thought I would weigh  in on the topic with a side note.


Does a back nine or front nine have to have par 5s to qualify as the best?


Does any nine or 18 holes have to have a series of par 5s par 4s and par 3s to qualify as great.


Or does the back nine at Lake Merced  or any golf course just have to be fun and exciting golf not withstanding par?

There's no rules, just has to be a collection of great holes.  You can interpret great any way.


Staying on the subject, I played SFGC the other day for the first time since before the pandemic. In that time they've hired a new head professional and a new superintendent who came from Cypress Point.


Like Olympic last year, they've lost quite a few trees with the most notable the tall cypress by the 9th green.


They're using a robotic mower to mow the left of 6 and the left of 8 which is a nice improvement.  Previously if you hit it there you could barely advance the ball.  On 8, the grass is cut short enough that it bounds back down into the fairway.


If this subject was about the best greens in the Bay Area, SFGC would easily win. I had forgot about how great they are, starting on the 1st. They had just aeriated the greens with small tines and a dusting of sand but they still rolled about a 12.  If you're above the hole, good luck.