Charging members to walk

[Jerry Kluger]

I recently played at a friend's club which is a high end member owned club with terrific amenities and two courses and during covid many of the members began walking and using push carts including electric ones and they have decided to charge a fee to those who choose to walk as they have lost quite a bit of riding cart revenue.  To me, they are essentially charging all the members a greens fee for playing either in the form of the walking or riding fee. (I believe the walking fee is quite a bit less than the riding fee.) My old club did not charge you to walk if you carried your bag but if you wanted to use a push cart you had to use one of their rentals.  Are others seeing this trend?

[Wayne_Kozun]

Here in the Toronto area there was always a fairly large number of members who walked and used push carts.  The only charge related to walking is for storage and charging of electric push carts which is a few hundred dollars per year.  The use of electric push carts increased a lot during and since Covid, but they have been common at my club for over 20 years.

[PCCraig]

I hate golf carts.

[Mark Mammel]

I've never seen a walking charge - outrageous!

[Pierre_C]

Jerry, my home club (private) allows walking but requires a caddy, otherwise golf cart. Walking and carrying your bag is only allow after 2:00 pm. The club added pull trolleys to 1 course this year (no personal or electric trolley); however, pull trolleys are only available after 2:00 pm w/ $15 fee per.

My other clubs have pull & electric trolleys available, with no charge and time restriction.

I was in Scotland for most of the summer and remember a few courses had a £5 charge per pull trolley. Charge for pull trolley in Scotland was rare, but I was surprise at several courses.

[Jason Topp]

It makes more sense to me to bump up dues if the revenue shortfall is significant.  Walking is almost always better for the members and better for the condition of the course. 


Of course - I walk so I could be a bit biased. 

[Mike Worth]

I've never seen a walking charge - outrageous!

Atlantic City CC, when they went private in 2022, had a “trail fee“ of $15 for walkers. I think it was limited to weekends and I’m not sure they’re doing it now.

[Frank M]

I would never join and would resign from a club that charges or introduces a charge for walking or only allows walking with caddies.


They would probably also never want me.


And I'm totally fine with all of that.

[Rich Thomas]

I've been to a public course where the greens fees are the same whether you walk or take a cart. They essentially make you pay for an amenity that you don't use. This was of course in Florida. If I'm not using a cart, I should not have to pay the same amount as somebody who does. What sense does that make.

[Daryl David]

I recently played at a friend's club which is a high end member owned club with terrific amenities and two courses and during covid many of the members began walking and using push carts including electric ones and they have decided to charge a fee to those who choose to walk as they have lost quite a bit of riding cart revenue.  To me, they are essentially charging all the members a greens fee for playing either in the form of the walking or riding fee. (I believe the walking fee is quite a bit less than the riding fee.) My old club did not charge you to walk if you carried your bag but if you wanted to use a push cart you had to use one of their rentals.  Are others seeing this trend?

Time for your friend to find a new club.

[Paul Jones]

I was a member of club that had 1 owner, he admitted that he made most of his money on cart rentals.  We made a deal that we could walk whenever we want, but he would only charge us 9 hole cart rate on weekend mornings.  That club does not exist anymore.

[Jim_Coleman]

  We didn’t allow carrying or pushcarts before Covid. Now both are allowed, with the club renting both electric and manual trolleys. Members can’t use their own trolleys. The carriers have to pay a fee to carry their bags before 2:00 on weekends. Seems wrong to me - essentially charging members a green fee to play their own course.

[Mark Pearce]

Charge for pull trolley in Scotland was rare, but I was surprise at several courses.

Charging for a pull/push trolley is pretty much standard in Scotland.  No charge to walk, or bring your own trolley, but if I want to use a club trolley, I expect to pay.  Not much (probably a fiver) but I'd be astonished not to be asked to pay to use their trolley.

[Niall C]

Mark's correct. The only Scottish club I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't charge for use of a club trolley is Royal Troon.


Generally in the UK we are more at the basic end of the scale in terms of what you get for your subs and it doesn't include free use of trolleys or free tees for example. That's why UK subs are much lower than country club USA.


Niall

[Luke Sutton]

I kinda like this as a revenue generation model as long as it doesn’t encourage increased cart use. I’ve always been a fan of private clubs that kept dues lower and charged a green fee to members. The young guys are not subsidizing the old retirees who play every day.

[A.G._Crockett]

Probably because I’m old, I’ve seen a number of variations of this at clubs where I’ve been a member.


For many years, I was a member of a club that didn’t allow walking on weekend mornings.


Then I was a member at a club that allowed walking anytime, but if you wanted to use a push cart, you had to rent one from the club; the club’s carts were black Sun Mountain speed carts, and I owned a black Sun Mountain speed cart, which I couldn’t use. 


Next, I was at a club that allowed walking anytime, but charged a $4 “trail fee” for walking on weekend mornings, but only during Daylight Savings. 


I never really had a problem with any of these because the GMs made it clear when we discussed it that this was a revenue issue; it wasn’t about pace of play, or uniformity, or anti-walking, or anything else.  It was just dollars; all were very affordable clubs, and I understood.


Now I’m a member at a much more expensive club; walking anytime, and you can use your own push cart. I have an electric trolley, which I pay the club $225/year to store.  Ironically, I spend MUCH more per year now than I ever did at any of the other clubs.  And that’s ok, too.

[Bernie Bell]

I kinda like this as a revenue generation model as long as it doesn’t encourage increased cart use. I’ve always been a fan of private clubs that kept dues lower and charged a green fee to members. The young guys are not subsidizing the old retirees who play every day.

There's certainly an argument to be made that the over 40 crowd are subsidizing the under 40 crowd (especially those on legacy deals) at many US clubs.

[Jim Sherma]

I have less of an issue with the total cost of membership than I do with the feeling like I'm being nickeled and dimed. If a non-equity club needs the added revenue from a "trail fee" then just be up front with your dues structure and increase them.


I understand mandatory caddy rules and the need to guarantee the demand in order to maintain the staffing. I don't belong to a club with a caddy program and am not sure I could justify the added cost of a caddy for every prime time round that I play, I simply do not get much incremental pleasure from having a caddy on repeated plays of a course that I know fairly well.


Outside of the caddy case I do not understand an equity club is imposing trail fee costs on themselves as opposed to figuring out a fee structure that does not require them. I live close to my club and stop in for many short practice sessions at the range and also play a lot of boozer loops over the course of the year. Mandatory incremental costs for those would significantly diminish the justification for belonging to a club. I want to write a check once a month and have access to the course and practice facility as I want to use them. If I choose not to use any of them for a week so be it, I am paying for the option to.

The people that complain about subsidizing members that have the time to play a lot are probably the same people that don't want to pay school taxes once their kids graduate. 

[SB]

I kinda like this as a revenue generation model as long as it doesn’t encourage increased cart use. I’ve always been a fan of private clubs that kept dues lower and charged a green fee to members. The young guys are not subsidizing the old retirees who play every day.

There's certainly an argument to be made that the over 40 crowd are subsidizing the under 40 crowd (especially those on legacy deals) at many US clubs.

How do you figure?  If retirees are playing 200 rounds a year and under 40 guys are playing 30 rounds a year, and both are paying the same price, how are the young guys getting subsidized? 


There was a hugely successful group of private clubs called Canongate in Atlanta that had very low dues, like $120 a month.  On top of that, you paid a small green fee (like $15) and, if you wanted one, a cart fee.  But you could walk at no charge.  The point was that there was a relationship between your use and your cost.  Not 1-1, but if you used it more, you paid more.  It kept the base dues down, and a lot of young families or people who worked 9-5 could join.  I get that heavy users would have to pay more, but I don't understand the anger over what seems like common sense. 

[Buck Wolter]

Walkers need to make sure they are good citizens. My home club has several places where I can pick up divot mix on the course and I make it a point to do that 2-3 times a round and fill as many divots as I can to make up for the times I don't have mix. Overall I believe there is enough less wear and tear that it's a net benefit to the course to have someone walk at $0 versus the $25 to ride.


I don't believe for me it's about saving money but I guess until it costs the same I'll never know, though it would probably bring down the temperature of my walk versus ride equation.

[Will Thrasher]

  We didn’t allow carrying or pushcarts before Covid. Now both are allowed, with the club renting both electric and manual trolleys. Members can’t use their own trolleys. The carriers have to pay a fee to carry their bags before 2:00 on weekends. Seems wrong to me - essentially charging members a green fee to play their own course.

What's next, charging members to park in the parking lot?

[Brian Finn]

I don't think a club member should be charged a fee each time they walk the course. 

However, with the exception of select clubs that divide total annual expenses equally among all members, don't all other clubs have some form of "usage" or "consumption" based charges? 

Where do you draw the line on what is included in standard dues and what is not?  Should carts be included in monthly dues?  Most here would likely say no way.  Should F&B charges be separated?  I'm sure most would say yes, and I tend to agree, but where to draw the line on including amenities in dues vs. charging by use is not necessarily clear.  Beyond F&B, many clubs charge separately for lockers, bag storage, and other amenities.  I lean heavily toward the single, uniform charge to all members, but can see others' perspective on each item. 

[DFarron]

Walkers need to make sure they are good citizens. My home club has several places where I can pick up divot mix on the course and I make it a point to do that 2-3 times a round and fill as many divots as I can to make up for the times I don't have mix. Overall I believe there is enough less wear and tear that it's a net benefit to the course to have someone walk at $0 versus the $25 to ride.


I don't believe for me it's about saving money but I guess until it costs the same I'll never know, though it would probably bring down the temperature of my walk versus ride equation.

As a general rule I feel like walkers are "the best citizens", they seem to respect the course and the game more than riders. Not always but frequently walkers are the fastest players, play "ready" golf, have more comradery  and make the game more enjoyable


Not sure why you should have to pay a "trail fee" to walk a course you already paid to join, but I feel like its a little bit like our government. Let's tax you on what you have been taxed on before and then tax you a little bit later. Charge your initiation and dues and then there should be the freedom to play as you wish.

[Mike Worth]

I tend to look at this from management’s perspective.


It’s not that they are punishing walkers.  They are trying to raise revenue.  if you look at it as an issue of what things they charge for in addition to the annual fee, I think it makes more sense.





Most of us are used to an annual fee and then you are charged if you take a riding cart. But there are other business models. There’s a lot of things that clubs COULD charge for, but don’t because they are included.


Example: 2019, the first year Dormie ran Hidden Creek (NJ), they charged a flat $12K annual fee - which included golf carts.  The annual fee in 2018 had been $11K.  So Dormie hit it’s revenue number with a simple, no add-on fee structure. The downside was walkers, like me, effectively paid $1k for a golf cart that I rarely used.






Though I typically didn’t ride, I did appreciate the uncomplicated fee structure.


I think if you look at this from the perspective of how clubs raise revenue, you can come up with lots of things they could actually charge for, but are typically included (trail fees is one such thing). 



to the snarky comment about charging for parking, that’s a potential revenue raiser :-) lol

[Sean_A]

I tend to look at this from management’s perspective.

It’s not that they are punishing walkers.  They are trying to raise revenue.  if you look at it as an issue of what things they charge for in addition to the annual fee, I think it makes more sense.

Most of us are used to an annual fee and then you are charged if you take a riding cart. But there are other business models. There’s a lot of things that clubs COULD charge for, but don’t because they are included.

Example: 2019, the first year Dormie ran Hidden Creek (NJ), they charged a flat $12K annual fee - which included golf carts.  The annual fee in 2018 had been $11K.  So Dormie hit it’s revenue number with a simple, no add-on fee structure. The downside was walkers, like me, effectively paid $1k for a golf cart that I rarely used.

Though I typically didn’t ride, I did appreciate the uncomplicated fee structure.

I think if you look at this from the perspective of how clubs raise revenue, you can come up with lots of things they could actually charge for, but are typically included (trail fees is one such thing). 

to the snarky comment about charging for parking, that’s a potential revenue raiser :-) lol

But carts cost clubs money to operate, I think quite a bit of money. So it makes sense to have an added fee in that case. Walking doesn’t cost the club anything unless you get into scam accountancy of lost revenue.

Ciao