OT 18, St Andrews

[Ben Sims]

Cut and paste on ski forum and change St Andrews from (insert Colorado ski town here).


Not to say anyone here is wrong or right, but the NIMBYs are typically the ones who don’t get their way in these situations. Maybe it’ll be different in Scottish golf towns.

[Kalen Braley]

Cut and paste on ski forum and change St Andrews from (insert Colorado ski town here).


Not to say anyone here is wrong or right, but the NIMBYs are typically the ones who don’t get their way in these situations. Maybe it’ll be different in Scottish golf towns.

Hilarious,

I can't wait till this guy makes his next stateside trip to review notable establishments such as Gordon Ramsey's Fish and Chips shop on the Las Vegas strip. I'm sure it'll feel just like home 

[Marty Bonnar]

Chef didn’t stay long…!
https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/food-and-drink/top-scots-chef-leaves-luxury-hotel-after-6-months-for-job-he-couldnt-say-no-to-4811423

[Adam Lawrence]

Why I love Mr Raynor. From his review, published today, of a 'gourmet hot dog bar' in the food hall at Harrods, about a 'S'more Sundae': "It is the words “can’t be bothered” fashioned out of sugar and cream".

[Wayne_Kozun]

How many days was the Old Course closed this year due to the Womens Open and the Dunhill?  It is fun watching the Dunhill, but having that many pro events really cuts into tee times for everyone else.

[David_Tepper]

Mr. Raynor's latest review:

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/oct/06/hot-dogs-by-three-darlings-london-things-that-no-one-needs-restaurant-review

Adam L. -

Seems like Raynor enjoys picking rather easy targets. One could ask, "What's the point?" (except for him to prove how "clever" he is. )

DT

[Daryl David]

No one will ever confuse Mr. Rayner with critics like Pete Wells or the late Jonathon Gold. He must have an audience or he wouldn’t act like such a dick. I guess it’s his niche. Personally, I’ll pass.

[Mark Pearce]

No one will ever confuse Mr. Rayner with critics like Pete Wells or the late Jonathon Gold. He must have an audience or he wouldn’t act like such a dick. I guess it’s his niche. Personally, I’ll pass.

Yeah.  Take a fair sample (one review and one snip from a review) and make a judgment.  Jay Raynor would have something to say about that.

[Mark Pearce]

Mr. Raynor's latest review:

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/oct/06/hot-dogs-by-three-darlings-london-things-that-no-one-needs-restaurant-review

Adam L. -

Seems like Raynor enjoys picking rather easy targets. One could ask, "What's the point?" (except for him to prove how "clever" he is. )

DT

David,


You're normally a sane voice here.  Have you bothered to go back through more than one or two reviews?  Because when he likes somewhere (and he likes far more than he doesn't), his praise is fulsome and witty.  For my wife's birthday we ate at a place in Tynemouth (North East England) where you literally sit in deck chairs, on the beach, and eat fish and seafood from a shack.  He absolutely loved it, and said so in terms.  The suggestion made here that he has style of attacking easy targets is miles off beam.  He loves food and people who are passionate about food.  He hates pretension.

[Daryl David]

No one will ever confuse Mr. Rayner with critics like Pete Wells or the late Jonathon Gold. He must have an audience or he wouldn’t act like such a dick. I guess it’s his niche. Personally, I’ll pass.

Yeah.  Take a fair sample (one review and one snip from a review) and make a judgment.  Jay Raynor would have something to say about that.

Fair point, but at least I spelled his name correctly. 

[David_Tepper]

Mark -

No, I have read very few of Jay Rayner's reviews. I am sure he has great interest and enthusiasm for what he does.

On the other hand, I wonder why he even chose to review a hot-dog stand in Harrod's. What percentage of the Guardian's readership would ever even think of dining there? What's the point other than to poke fun and have a laugh?

And I don't begrudge Mr. Rayner that. Whether it is movies or books or restaurants, critics have to slog thru a lot of indifferent, mediocre experiences. I am sure it can be fun when you find a real stinker to review.

DT 
   

[Charlie Goerges]

I wonder why he even chose to review a hot-dog stand in Harrod's.

I haven't read the article, but I think that in-depth reviews (of all types) at the bottom of the market are even more worthwhile than those at the top. Fair enough if this review didn't do what it was meant to do, but good on food critics for reviewing things other than just the fine-dining establishments. Knowing where (or not) to get a good hot-dog or burger is valuable to a person of limited means.

[David_Tepper]

"Knowing where (or not) to get a good hot-dog or burger is valuable to a person of limited means."

Charlie -

I sincerely doubt a person of "limited means" would consider spending 22 pounds on a hot dog at Harrods.

DT

[Charlie Goerges]

"Knowing where (or not) to get a good hot-dog or burger is valuable to a person of limited means."

Charlie -

I sincerely doubt a person of "limited means" would consider spending 22 pounds on a hot dog at Harrods.

DT

Probably, but it's at least on the edge of the sort of small indulgence that an ordinary person might like to do for themselves if it was a good product. Therefore knowing whether it's a decent value can help such a person make a decision. That's always the value of criticism to me. Now I understand if too much snark is off-putting for an individual... in that case, that critic isn't a good proxy for whomever feels that way. But it can still be useful for others.

[mike_beene]

I thought a hot dog was a “duchie” or something similar. That’s what they told me at Wimbledon. No telling what I really ate?

[Scott Warren]

Being neither British and automatically protective of the author, nor American and personally offended by some of the commentary, I'm maybe as close to impartial as is possible.

My takeaway was that the food wasn't especially good and the service was even worse. It wasn't really made clear how the room full of American golfers really impacted the author's night, so the pillorying of them came across as gratuitous.

"They were buoyant and they were ordering steaks" seems to be the extent of their crimes.

I will say, the British press elevates the restaurant reviewer far higher than I think is the case in American or Australian newspapers and as a result, Jay Rayner and Giles Coren as decent examples, they often tend to come across as reasonably full of themselves.

[David_Tepper]

"I will say, the British press elevates the restaurant reviewer far higher than I think is the case in American or Australian newspapers and as a result, Jay Rayner and Giles Coren as decent examples, they often tend to come across as reasonably full of themselves."

And don't forget the legendary A.A. Gill:

https://www.chrisvonulmenstein.com/blog/cape-town/tribute-to-aa-gill-worlds-best-known-restaurant-critic/

https://wtf-philroberts.com/2019/05/23/gill-critic-worth-acclaiming/

[Bernie Bell]

 The restaurant “smells of newly pumped testosterone. On a weekday night the place is filled with a certain kind of middle-aged man, most of them American. They are not just seated at the tables but thronging between them and leaning over the shoulders of friends at other tables to bark with laughter at each other’s jokes and war stories. . . . [Boyter’s] appointment here signified culinary ambition and commitment. It just seems that the core clientele didn’t get the memo. What this lot want – and what they get – is cow. An awful lot of grilled cow.”  Rayner

“That’s …. that’s just nitpicking, isn’t it.”  Nigel Tufner

[Jeff Fortson]

“That’s …. that’s just nitpicking, isn’t it.”  Nigel Tufner

The critic would have won me over completely if his review was like Spinal Tap's "Shark Sandwich"  two-word review.


"Shit Sandwich"

[Mark Pearce]

British and automatically protective of the author,

I don't think that's fair, if it's aimed at Adam or me.  There are lots of really crap British journalists (you should know, you used to work with a lot of them......) but it won't surprise you to know that I'm a Guardian reader (I suspect Adam probably is too) and I do make a point most weekends or reading Rayner's review because I enjoy his writing (and because I have really enjoyed a number of places he has recommended, so his reviews aren't just amusing, they're useful.


I don't expect Raynor likes golf or golfers in general.  That's OK by me, I can live with it.  Whether outrage at a restaurant critic in a British paper complaining about noise in a restaurant really justifies 3 pages of discussion on a golf course architecture discussion board is a fascinating question.

[Brian_Ewen]

Loving Jayden Daniels 

 

[Craig Disher]

Indian Spring CC in Silver Spring MD. It was considered by the best players in the DC area to be the best course in the area, ahead of Columbia CC, Chevy Chase, Congressional and Washington G&CC. The course was chopped up in the early 40s by the owner to create for some housing and was reduced to a smaller 18 by Wm Flynn. The DC Beltway finished it off in the 1950s. Ross left meticulous drawings of each hole and green. Unfortunately, placing them on similar topography would be nearly impossible. The clubhouse still exists.