OT 18, St Andrews

[Brian_Ewen]

 


https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/sep/29/18-st-andrews-smells-of-newly-pumped-testosterone-restaurant-review

Because next to us a table of 10 more pilgrims, presumably here to worship at the temple to golf outside, has just been seated. They also have friends; many, many, friends. They keep pouring into the dining room to have drinks and honk at each other like the table is merely the buffet at some cocktail party. The young, friendly waiting staff deal with this roaming mêlée with grace and efficiency, but Sartre wasn’t wrong when he said that hell is other people. Doubtless, they would all think exactly the same of me if we got acquainted. The issue here, of course, is one of pure economics. St Andrews depends on this ready flow of American golfing tourists and I suppose I should take comfort from the fact that they and their obsessions are, for the most part, corralled up here on the 4th floor. But rarely have I punched the lift button down to ground with such a profound eagerness and glee.

[Jeff Schley]

Yet another experience ruined by the pilgrims from across the pond. I guess their dollars aren't worth this break from formal norms.


I know this isn't you Brian, but the author.


Is this so different than any guys golf trip Anywhete else?

[Ian Andrew]

I played St. Andrew's Old on ballot the very last time I was there. We won our spot. We got paired with two guys with tour bags and limited skills. My travel partner and I thought this was just bad luck and we would have a slow round. You know what the problem was ... us. Even a slow round on the Old Course is a gift. Turns out they were really nice guys. Limited skill set. But caddies addressed that easily. This was clearly an experience of a lifetime for them. They had come north with their families and balloted knowing it might be their only chance ever. They were so happy. It was contagious and added to my day. It's easy to denigrate someone as not worthy, that the experience should be limited to "serious people", but that's not the case.

I love going to galleries. I have limited knowledge of art history and I like to talk to my wife about the paintings (or the buildings) we are enjoying. I'm sure to many serious students of art, or gallery patrons, I'm clearly a boorish North American ... 

[John Mayhugh]

I'm not sure why Brian elected to post this.

Does anyone like to sit next to a large table of other diners at any restaurant anywhere? Large groups have a way of acting like they are the only people there, and I'm skeptical that Americans are any markedly worse than any other demographics. Surely this shouldn't be a novel concept for Brian or the author of the review.

Speaking from recent experience, I would rather share a restaurant with 20 loud Americans than follow their group of four balls at Cruden Bay.

[Kalen Braley]

After reading the full review on their food offerings and an over-worked kitchen, sounds like the loud tourists would be the least of your worries there. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

Satre was wrong. Hell would be living with the author of the article.

[Matt Schoolfield]

Food critic from Brent reviews hotel's restaurant in St Andrews. What an absolutely bizarre assignment. Why would they not review a restaurant that exists, you know, as a standalone restaurant.

[Jeff Fortson]

The person that wrote this review seems like they are a lot of fun.

[Kalen Braley]

The person that wrote this review seems like they are a lot of fun.

Not to mention terribly naïve.

This is like reviewing one of the tourist trap restaurants on Pier 49.  Of course its going to be overpriced, mediocre food to feed and fleece the tourists...

[Rob Marshall]

I'm not sure why Brian elected to post this.

Does anyone like to sit next to a large table of other diners at any restaurant anywhere? Large groups have a way of acting like they are the only people there, and I'm skeptical that Americans are any markedly worse than any other demographics. Surely this shouldn't be a novel concept for Brian or the author of the review.

Speaking from recent experience, I would rather share a restaurant with 20 loud Americans than follow their group of four balls at Cruden Bay.

Seems I remember other posts where it’s pretty apparent Brian doesn’t like Americans.

[David_Tepper]

One of Jay Rayner's prior restaurant reviews did make the list of the "7 meanest restaurant reviews ever written from professional food critics."

https://twistedfood.co.uk/articles/the-meanest-things-critics-have-ever-said-about-posh-restaurants

He does "have form."
 

[Brian_Ewen]

Seems I remember other posts where it’s pretty apparent Brian doesn’t like Americans.

Loving Jayden Daniels 

[Bill Gayne]

I'm looking forward to reading his review of the proposed Tiger Woods Justin Timberlake sports bar planned for St Andrews.

[Mark Pearce]

Rayner is a tremendously entertaining restaurant critic and frequently very generous in his praise.  But his job is to entertain, not to write dry dull prose.  The inability of several on here to get that that's the job of a newspaper restaurant critic is puzzling.

[Adam Lawrence]

Yeah, I really like Jay Rayner too. It's hardly surprising that a restaurant critic for a left-leaning newspaper should have a few snide things to say about a restaurant full of rich American golfers. Nothing to see here.

[Niall C]

I didn't bother to read the article but the bit below in the OP which I assume was taken from the article is just bolloks. I know he's writing to entertain and all that but it's just nonsense.


Niall




"The issue here, of course, is one of pure economics. St Andrews depends on this ready flow of American golfing tourists "

[Mark Pearce]

I didn't bother to read the article but the bit below in the OP which I assume was taken from the article is just bolloks. I know he's writing to entertain and all that but it's just nonsense.


Niall




"The issue here, of course, is one of pure economics. St Andrews depends on this ready flow of American golfing tourists "

Is it?  Does St Andrews' economy not depend on golf tourism?

[Tim Martin]

You can’t trust anyone that spells Raynor with an E.

[Tom_Doak]

Similarly OT, I was in St. Andrews this summer, and there is a great little restaurant on Golf Place, called Haar.  It is not at all built for foursomes of American golfers, but it's one of the better tasting menus I've ever had, featuring a bunch of local ingredients from Scotland with which I was unfamiliar.  If your wife deigns to go with you to St. Andrews, take her to Haar.

[Niall C]

Mark


Firstly, he refers to American golfing tourists. If you took them out of the equation, would the local economy crumble ? Take a bit of  a hit maybe, particularly in certain sectors ie. high end accommodation, but there's more than US golfers that go to St Andrews. Even if the rest of golfing visitors disappeared you'd still have the locals. And let's not forget the University and what that brings to the local economy. 


St Andrews is so much more than a resort destination for Americans and to suggest that it depends on them just doesn't bear any kind of scrutiny IMO.


Anyway, I take it the review wasn't very good ?


Niall

[Tim Martin]

Mark


Firstly, he refers to American golfing tourists. If you took them out of the equation, would the local economy crumble ? Take a bit of  a hit maybe, particularly in certain sectors ie. high end accommodation, but there's more than US golfers that go to St Andrews. Even if the rest of golfing visitors disappeared you'd still have the locals. And let's not forget the University and what that brings to the local economy. 


St Andrews is so much more than a resort destination for Americans and to suggest that it depends on them just doesn't bear any kind of scrutiny IMO.


Anyway, I take it the review wasn't very good ?


Niall

Niall-What kind of rate do locals and university students pay to play St. Andrews?

[Niall C]

Tim


I've no idea. Presumably your point is that American golfing visitors put more into the local economy than locals or students ? If you were using the amount of revenue of the Links Trust attributable to US golfers relative to students and locals as the yardstick then perhaps that might be the case (I've no idea, haven't seen the figures). I'd imagine it would certainly be the case if you looked at spend per capita. But that's not taking into account visiting golfers from elsewhere.


However as significant as golf tourism is, and US golfers are only a part of that remember, it's not the be all and end all of the St Andrews economy. If the next US President were to inexplicably ban US citizens from visiting the UK, that would certainly have an impact on St Andrews. Particularly certain sectors such as high end hotels, but shops, pubs and other businesses would continue trading. For instance the town would be full of (high spending) students as usual.


My point being, St Andrews doesn't depend on visiting US golfers.   


Niall

[Tim Martin]

Tim


I've no idea. Presumably your point is that American golfing visitors put more into the local economy than locals or students ? If you were using the amount of revenue of the Links Trust attributable to US golfers relative to students and locals as the yardstick then perhaps that might be the case (I've no idea, haven't seen the figures). I'd imagine it would certainly be the case if you looked at spend per capita. But that's not taking into account visiting golfers from elsewhere.


However as significant as golf tourism is, and US golfers are only a part of that remember, it's not the be all and end all of the St Andrews economy. If the next US President were to inexplicably ban US citizens from visiting the UK, that would certainly have an impact on St Andrews. Particularly certain sectors such as high end hotels, but shops, pubs and other businesses would continue trading. For instance the town would be full of (high spending) students as usual.


My point being, St Andrews doesn't depend on visiting US golfers.   


Niall

Niall-You referenced “the rest of golfing visitors” and not just Americans. I believe that the Links Trust as well as the town absolutely depend on those visitors.

[Bernie Bell]

I wonder how the fellow liked his daiquiri. 

[Mark Pearce]

I don't think Jay Rayner was suggesting that St Andrews would cease to exist without American golf tourists.  And
that isn't what I read the word "depends" to mean.  I am well aware that other nationalities visit St Andrews.  But I suspect that, ranked by their contribution to the city's GDP, US visiting golfers are the most significant nationality.  Their contribution is certainly significant.  Particularly when you look at, say, top end accommodation and restaurants.


So your outrage at his words appears....misplaced.