Outsider - Naples

[Tim Fitz]

Anyone have any info on this new course being built out near Hideout?  Looks like Fry/Strakka was originally attached to the project, but that may no longer be the case.


Lots of golf in Naples but most of it seems full (waitlist) at the moment. With this and Kinsale, perhaps the supply/demand curve will move closer to balance?

[Ryan Book]

I made a note of this one back in April and quickly got feedback that the club had cold feet on Straka/Fry. Based on the updated text of this Forbes article, that is correct. I had heard at the time it was the club who might be seeking a bigger name...but this article now frames it as if Straka/Fry pulled out.


The Outsider: Denied Entry At Florida Golf Club, Tech Exec Plans To Build His Own Next Door (forbes.com)

[Wayne_Kozun]

So this will be a spite golf club.  See Curb Your Enthusiasm Season 10 Episode 10.


I bet that there were previous instances where someone couldn't get into a club, said FU and built their own club.

[Adam Lawrence]

I am told that this project is dead. Could always be wrong, but that's what I have been told.

[Edward Glidewell]

So this will be a spite golf club.  See Curb Your Enthusiasm Season 10 Episode 10.


I bet that there were previous instances where someone couldn't get into a club, said FU and built their own club.

That's supposedly why Sage Valley was built -- developer couldn't get into Augusta National.

[Tom_Doak]

So this will be a spite golf club.  See Curb Your Enthusiasm Season 10 Episode 10.

I bet that there were previous instances where someone couldn't get into a club, said FU and built their own club.

That's supposedly why Sage Valley was built -- developer couldn't get into Augusta National.

There are lots of instances of this, including quite a few famous courses.


I wonder how many Augusta members call themselves “developers” ??

[Tim Martin]

So this will be a spite golf club.  See Curb Your Enthusiasm Season 10 Episode 10.


I bet that there were previous instances where someone couldn't get into a club, said FU and built their own club.

Wayne-This topic is probably worthy of its own thread. I can think of a couple of examples in my home state of Connecticut.

[Anthony_Nysse]

So this will be a spite golf club.  See Curb Your Enthusiasm Season 10 Episode 10.

I bet that there were previous instances where someone couldn't get into a club, said FU and built their own club.

That's supposedly why Sage Valley was built -- developer couldn't get into Augusta National.

There are lots of instances of this, including quite a few famous courses.

I wonder how many Augusta members call themselves “developers” ??

Weldon Wyatt, developer of Sage Valley, made his fortune as the nation’s leading developer of Walmart stores.

[Rob Marshall]

Anyone have any info on this new course being built out near Hideout?  Looks like Fry/Strakka was originally attached to the project, but that may no longer be the case.


Lots of golf in Naples but most of it seems full (waitlist) at the moment. With this and Kinsale, perhaps the supply/demand curve will move closer to balance?

All full. Waitlist everywhere in Naples and fees have skyrocketed.

[Kevin_Reilly]

The Outsider: Denied Entry At Florida Golf Club, Tech Exec Plans To Build His Own Next Door (forbes.com)

Ha, the guy asked about $$$ at his membership interview and wondered why he got blackballed?  Sometimes if asked if you have any questions, the best answer is basically a form of "no".


Do your due diligence on the economics before your interview with the membership committee.

[DFarron]

Wow nothing says “grow the game “ like a $750 initiation fee.


No wonder golf has a bad rap

[Daryl David]

Wow nothing says “grow the game “ like a $750 initiation fee.


No wonder golf has a bad rap

$750 sounds good. Oh, you mean $750K?  Ouch.


Not to be a dick, but I always wondered why we need to grow the game. For the manufacturers?  For the developers?  How about we freeze the game for the golfers. Stays the same. No new golfers and when one leaves the game, a new one comes in. Sounds pretty good to me as a player. I get how that would not sound good to someone that makes equipment or is developing courses. But there are two sides to the debate. Just saying.

[Charlie Goerges]

Not to be a dick, but I always wondered why we need to grow the game. For the manufacturers?  For the developers?  How about we freeze the game for the golfers. Stays the same. No new golfers and when one leaves the game, a new one comes in. Sounds pretty good to me as a player. I get how that would not sound good to someone that makes equipment or is developing courses. But there are two sides to the debate. Just saying.

I do kind of understand this on first blush, but I think a mostly-stagnant game would get old pretty fast. Just the ability to meet new people coming in (or coming back later in life) is part of the fun. Additionally, I feel like this kind of freeze would disproportionately hurt lower-cost facilities the most (but I could be wrong). Not to mention that one-out/one-in would probably leave a lot of people who'd like to play left out.


That said, the ouroboros that is the equipment industry is getting tiresome. I don't feel like their version of growing the game is the same as what mine is and I totally get it. But they aren't the only ones helped by a growing game.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The current wait list at Calusa Pines (Ive heard from a "good source") is currently 512.
Kinsale already full and jacked intro fee from $250-$400K.


If you did not "get into FL" before 2021, you are basically fooked unless you have bottomless pockets and can join one of these new "mega church" clubs.


Why wait 7 years to grind your way into Everglades Club when you can just drop $1M and join Apogee?


WE just need a brisk recession to blow through, right...?...  


Oh, and Tim...you will remain an "Outsider" unless you can stomach a mere $150K downstroke to join some 37 year old "Robert Van Hague" course with only a 5 year wait and a hardy "Doak 4" rating (if you are lucky.)


Even then, you will be cart-balling until you start eating soft food.

[Daryl David]

Not to be a dick, but I always wondered why we need to grow the game. For the manufacturers?  For the developers?  How about we freeze the game for the golfers. Stays the same. No new golfers and when one leaves the game, a new one comes in. Sounds pretty good to me as a player. I get how that would not sound good to someone that makes equipment or is developing courses. But there are two sides to the debate. Just saying.

I do kind of understand this on first blush, but I think a mostly-stagnant game would get old pretty fast. Just the ability to meet new people coming in (or coming back later in life) is part of the fun. Additionally, I feel like this kind of freeze would disproportionately hurt lower-cost facilities the most (but I could be wrong). Not to mention that one-out/one-in would probably leave a lot of people who'd like to play left out.


That said, the ouroboros that is the equipment industry is getting tiresome. I don't feel like their version of growing the game is the same as what mine is and I totally get it. But they aren't the only ones helped by a growing game.

Good points Charlie.

[Rob Marshall]

The current wait list at Calusa Pines (Ive heard from a "good source") is currently 512.
Kinsale already full and jacked intro fee from $250-$400K.


If you did not "get into FL" before 2021, you are basically fooked unless you have bottomless pockets and can join one of these new "mega church" clubs.


Why wait 7 years to grind your way into Everglades Club when you can just drop $1M and join Apogee?


WE just need a brisk recession to blow through, right...?...  


Oh, and Tim...you will remain an "Outsider" unless you can stomach a mere $150K downstroke to join some 37 year old "Robert Van Hague" course with only a 5 year wait and a hardy "Doak 4" rating (if you are lucky.)


Even then, you will be cart-balling until you start eating soft food.

Pretty spot on. Just went from the pre-wait list to officially on the waitlist for a club in Naples. Locked in at 75K for a club that pre Covid was 10K. Fortunately bought my place in 2016, well before I retired. I’m just off Marco so it’s even harder to find a club not a 45 minute drive.


If you have ever played the Creek in Fiddlers that is now $350k but theoretically refundable.


Good public golf doesn’t exist. We drive 55 minutes each way to Ava Maria to play Panther and the National. They will both be private in a couple of years.


It’s crazy.

[John Foley]

I looked late 2010's and it wasn't crazy but still very limited availability. Always thought that North Naples / Bonita you could find a bit of a better deal but that isn't happening either. A bit surprised he was able to put that land deal together, that pretty close to town to be undeveloped.

[Rob Marshall]

I looked late 2010's and it wasn't crazy but still very limited availability. Always thought that North Naples / Bonita you could find a bit of a better deal but that isn't happening either. A bit surprised he was able to put that land deal together, that pretty close to town to be undeveloped.

Basically a dirt road to Hideout and there is only one house on the course you can see. Its pretty remote but you’re right it’s not far from the end Pine Ridge.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

The current wait list at Calusa Pines (Ive heard from a "good source") is currently 512.
Kinsale already full and jacked intro fee from $250-$400K.


If you did not "get into FL" before 2021, you are basically fooked unless you have bottomless pockets and can join one of these new "mega church" clubs.


Why wait 7 years to grind your way into Everglades Club when you can just drop $1M and join Apogee?


WE just need a brisk recession to blow through, right...?...  


Oh, and Tim...you will remain an "Outsider" unless you can stomach a mere $150K downstroke to join some 37 year old "Robert Van Hague" course with only a 5 year wait and a hardy "Doak 4" rating (if you are lucky.)


Even then, you will be cart-balling until you start eating soft food.

Pretty spot on. Just went from the pre-wait list to officially on the waitlist for a club in Naples. Locked in at 75K for a club that pre Covid was 10K. Fortunately bought my place in 2016, well before I retired. I’m just off Marco so it’s even harder to find a club not a 45 minute drive.


If you have ever played the Creek in Fiddlers that is now $350k but theoretically refundable.


Good public golf doesn’t exist. We drive 55 minutes each way to Ava Maria to play Panther and the National. They will both be private in a couple of years.


It’s crazy.

That is crazy. I remember when Fiddlers was practically bankrupt and you could join for $5000.


My parents were in a bundled community - Naples Lakes. Do those places have initiation fees now? If not I’d imagine it would make the real estate more valuable

[Rob Marshall]

The current wait list at Calusa Pines (Ive heard from a "good source") is currently 512.
Kinsale already full and jacked intro fee from $250-$400K.


If you did not "get into FL" before 2021, you are basically fooked unless you have bottomless pockets and can join one of these new "mega church" clubs.


Why wait 7 years to grind your way into Everglades Club when you can just drop $1M and join Apogee?


WE just need a brisk recession to blow through, right...?...  


Oh, and Tim...you will remain an "Outsider" unless you can stomach a mere $150K downstroke to join some 37 year old "Robert Van Hague" course with only a 5 year wait and a hardy "Doak 4" rating (if you are lucky.)


Even then, you will be cart-balling until you start eating soft food.

Pretty spot on. Just went from the pre-wait list to officially on the waitlist for a club in Naples. Locked in at 75K for a club that pre Covid was 10K. Fortunately bought my place in 2016, well before I retired. I’m just off Marco so it’s even harder to find a club not a 45 minute drive.


If you have ever played the Creek in Fiddlers that is now $350k but theoretically refundable.


Good public golf doesn’t exist. We drive 55 minutes each way to Ava Maria to play Panther and the National. They will both be private in a couple of years.


It’s crazy.

That is crazy. I remember when Fiddlers was practically bankrupt and you could join for $5000.


My parents were in a bundled community - Naples Lakes. Do those places have initiation fees now? If not I’d imagine it would make the real estate more valuable

It was bankrupt. I used to play it for $65.