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peter_p

Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2006, 09:49:13 PM »
Don't have enought experience on hs courses, but I like the biarritz green on #8. Because it is upslope it causes a lot of problems with speed - overestimate the down, underestimate
the slope to the back tier.

Matthew Rose

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2006, 08:13:38 AM »

Will hopefully have a chance to attend this tournament in the future as my parents are moving out to Denver and plan to retire there. Were even thinking of Castle Rock.

I like some of the changes, including the lake on 14. I think they put that there because it was a low spot and it would turn into a puddle following heavy rain.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Greg Tallman

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2006, 11:11:45 AM »
Matt Ward,

Not undervaluing Pronghorn... have not heard anything but good comments about it. On the flip side the comments of Mayacama have been a bit more glowing.

PThomas

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2006, 11:15:19 AM »

Will hopefully have a chance to attend this tournament in the future as my parents are moving out to Denver and plan to retire there. Were even thinking of Castle Rock.

I like some of the changes, including the lake on 14. I think they put that there because it was a low spot and it would turn into a puddle following heavy rain.


Matt:  welcome

and if your parents decide on Castle Pines, I'll be they could make some extra money renting out an extra bedroom to other GCAers!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Greg Clark

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2006, 11:36:06 PM »
I haven't played a ton of Jack's courses, but I would offer that The Bull at Pinehurst Farms is quite a bit stronger than Reflection Bay in my opinion.  Reflection Bay is a quality public course, but not that memorable.  The Bull is situated on much stronger property and Jack did a solid job there.

Matthew Rose

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2006, 11:39:27 PM »

It wouldn't be on that course, but one of the other ones, which I guess aren't exactly part of the same complex.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with a little wishful thinking, though :)
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Scott Szabo

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2006, 08:58:06 AM »
All the talk about #17 being ridiculous as a par five - did you all see the "big boys" struggling with it on Sunday coming down the stretch?  I think it is a wonderful hole as is.  They know they should make birdie (or eagle, of which there was only one on Sunday) and to see the agony on their faces as they notched a par (or worse) on that hole.  

On another thread, I was ripped up about being "too hung up on par", does the same thing apply here?
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Jim Franklin

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2006, 09:08:46 AM »
I didn't notice, but how many eagles were on #17 yesterday? I saw Cink had one, but it was my son's first birthday so I was occupied and did not see much of the event.
Mr Hurricane

Scott Szabo

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2006, 09:48:53 AM »
Jim,

I believe there were only two eagles (Zach Johnson and Stewart Cink) on 17.

Scott
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Kirk Gill

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2006, 09:50:13 AM »
Sat next to the 17th green for a portion of the Sunday round, and found it interesting to see how many players were short. I overheard one player on Saturday saying to his playing partner how he was hitting six-iron into 17, so it "has to be a par-4."

This was just before playing the fifth.

Is it the sign of a good, or at least an interesting hole, that players are already thinking of it more than 10 holes ahead of time?

Have only played one Nicklaus design (Ptarmigan, near Fort Collins, CO), which is not on the order of Castle Pines. From a spectator standpoint, I really enjoyed sitting behind the 10th green and watching how the players handled it. You could play to the left side of the fairway, and a little short, giving you a flat lie and a good look straight down the length of the green, but most players played it 10 yards past the flat part of the fairway, and on the right side, necessitating a second from a downhill lie over the fronting pond. If they missed the fairway to the right, the rough over there was brutal. I watched David Toms hack it out of there perhaps 50 yards into the fairway (although to be fair, Els went for the green from that rough, and just made it over the pond). I thought that there were options and interest in that particular hole.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Jim Franklin

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2006, 02:19:01 PM »
2 EAGLES and everyone is claiming it is a par 4. Give me a break. It is a great hole for the purpose it serves. I am not a short hitter and still had a 4 iron left when I played it (wet conditions with no roll ;)) and it is uphill. It makes for good TV.
Mr Hurricane

Doug Siebert

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Re:Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2006, 06:07:54 PM »
Why not let the hole stay par 5, since it adds some extra excitement to stableford system allowing for more points down the stretch than you would get with the hole as a par 4.  I'd agree if they hosted a major there, but let them have their fun since the tournament is scored differently than others.

Besides, I had a 7 iron from dead center of the fairway to a par 5 yesterday, and managed to find a way to bogey the damn hole from there without hitting any shot particularly awful or incurring any penalty strokes, so you never know! :)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2024, 06:51:47 PM »
Thought I'd resurrect this old thread from yesteryear.

Been quite awhile since Castle Pines has been on the Tour.  Any notable changes or renovations since then?  Or are we in for a tasty visit to old time PGA Tour nostalgia?

P.S.  And of course where does it NOW rank among Jack's designs?

Matthew Rose

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Re: Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2024, 04:28:40 AM »
It's been changed quite a bit over the last 10 years. The bunkers have been redone in a more "wavy" style and most of the superfluous bunkering on #18 is gone.

A few additional water hazards have been added, especially on the front nine, and a lot of them have put in waterfalls and other features. Hole #8 is a par-five that has had a new green built a bit back and left of the old one, so now three of the four par-fives are over 600 yards now.

Supposedly it is playing 8,130 yards for the event this week, which is by far the longest PGA tour course in history.

I won't speculate as to whether it is a better course now or not, having never played it, but I'd guess the changes probably won't appeal to this forum a whole lot.

I believe Golf Digest has an "Every Hole At..." video for it now.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2024, 10:38:58 AM »
Thanks for the update Matt,

I was thinking they had to add length, not only for elevation's sake, but the ungodly distances they hit now.

Any holes in particular to watch for?  As one who lives in the Intermountain West, I'll be tuning in this weekend as I enjoy "mountain golf".

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2024, 06:48:39 PM »
I’ve never been there. It appears that renovations over the years have substituted man-made beauty in place of some of the original natural beauty. Is that a fair assessment?

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2024, 04:09:39 PM »
I played Castle Pines about 20 years ago as it was a top 100 course in the Golf Digest ratings. While I have very fond memories of most of those 100 courses, I have zero memory of Castle Pines. I've never been much of a Nicklaus fan except for 6 years I belonged to the Ritz in Jupiter (now Trump National) and I liked it very much. I played it 6 times per week for 6 years.


As an original member, I held the course record of 66 for a few months until a touring pro obliterated by 5 shots. Originally it have extremely deep bunkers which I loved but member complaints caused him to ease those over the years.


I thought the greens were very well designed and learnt over time where to hit and especially the distances of the angled greens.


One of the toughest holes was a short par 4 with a devilish green.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Phil Burr

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Re: Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2024, 01:49:35 AM »
I’ve never played Castle Pines but it looks worse on TV than I remember from the International years.  Living in Arizona for 25 years and playing everything at Desert Mountain at least five times I thought they were all rubbish.  I thought Desert Highlands was far better and included some new ideas for its time.  The most FUN Nicklaus course I’ve ever played is the New Course (I think it’s been rechristened the Links Course) at the former Grand Cypress Resort, which I think is now called Evermore.  Is it original?  No.  Is it fun to play a simulated links course while the family is at Disney World?  Hell yeah!  I have no idea as to whether it’s still open or how well it’s maintained.  But thirty years ago it was a blast to play 54 holes per day with most rounds taking no more than two hours.

Jeff Schley

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Re: Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2024, 10:02:56 AM »
One of the most exciting tournaments I remember watching on TV was the Steve Lowrey vs. Rich Been playing each other down to the wire at The International one year. I remember Lowery holing out for double eagle down the stretch and barely missed a birdie on 18 to give Been the win.  Great drama and thought the course was highlighted well that week.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Castle Pines - Where do you rank in NICKLAUS designs
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2024, 01:06:52 PM »
I have not played the course in its present iteration, but my wife and I played it about ten years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was playable for my wife and had some exciting and demanding shots. I think that most of the members love playing there.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

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