[Tommy Williamsen]

Most magazines have The European Club ranked high. So there are people who think highly of it. I'm not sure why some of you have to be so mean.

[Steve Lapper]

Tommy,


  I think the European Club is a wonderful place and well worth a visit. It is quite a fun course, with just enough chin-scratching holes to leave it open to subjective-based rating questions.


 Is it worth $35-40M? Questionable.

[Tom_Doak]

I suppose it’s possible that someone would overpay for a “trophy property” if they really loved the course, but I can’t think of an example of that.  Generally, people spend the $ to build a great course as a legacy project, and a big part of that is having fun in the creation of the course.


The European Club is Pat Ruddy’s legacy, but that means it’s not worth as much to anyone else as it was to Pat.

[Ben Stephens]

If I was an interested buyer for the European the first instinct is that it's certainly not worth 35 million euros. 


The course maybe of high standard however the land is likely not to be of high value monetary wise.


It is lacking a major hotel or a high quality clubhouse to justify the value - the current one is substandard compared to a golf development worth 35 million euros you would expect a bigger and better quality clubhouse plus a large hotel.

[Niall C]

Most magazines have The European Club ranked high. So there are people who think highly of it. I'm not sure why some of you have to be so mean.

Tommy


I have to think you are being more than a touch disingenuous in wondering at the reason for some of the responses.


Niall

[Steve_Lovett]

I suppose it’s possible that someone would overpay for a “trophy property” if they really loved the course, but I can’t think of an example of that.  Generally, people spend the $ to build a great course as a legacy project, and a big part of that is having fun in the creation of the course.


The European Club is Pat Ruddy’s legacy, but that means it’s not worth as much to anyone else as it was to Pat.

Is the land good enough that a new buyer could create a new/renovated course worthy of such a legacy?

[Ally Mcintosh]

The land is great. And there’s no need to change the course.


The routing is very solid. The stylistic choices and design philosophy that Pat Ruddy made were his choices and are his legacy.


Why are you all so keen to see every ODG course “restored”, sometimes under a false guise; but are all too quick to wipe out the one course of a modern architect that really matters as an original vision?

[Ben Stephens]

The land is great. And there’s no need to change the course.


The routing is very solid. The stylistic choices and design philosophy that Pat Ruddy made were his choices and are his legacy.


Why are you all so keen to see every ODG course “restored”, sometimes under a false guise; but are all too quick to wipe out the one course of a modern architect that really matters as an original vision?

The pics of the course in the estate agent's brochure makes it looks like a really solid links course however that water hazard on 18th looks odd to the eye for me - it might be marmite


There are a lot of bunkers lined with railway sleepers - I dont mind it

[Mike Hendren]

If you aren’t jonesing to own a golf course the 10-years treasury is yielding an effortless 3.86%.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I don’t know enough to speak to the club's asking price. It is way out of my league. I can say a few things about why I love the course. It is playable for my wife, and it is her favorite place in the world to play.

In the last forty years I have played 180 courses in GB&I, including 70 links courses. I lectured at Oxford for many years. Because I was in England so much. I had overseas memberships at Westward Ho! and Saunton. It was my happy circumstance to have played with our own intrepid travelers, Sean Arble and Mark Rowlinson. I am very familiar with the wonderful courses on the British Isles. I have played TEC over fifty times since 1996. Over the years, Pat has made some minor tweaks to the course. In 1996, the course was a little narrower, and the rough was deeper and thicker. It is now wider, and balls are easier to find and hit out of the rough. Just a year ago, he made some changes to the tee shot on five to make the landing area a little more prominent and more visible from the tee. He felt the green on the par three sixth hole was a tad small, especially with the little creek left of the green, and enlarged it.

There are a bunch of fun shots. Number two is a short par three. The wind typically comes out of the left. The terrain slopes from left to right. For years I lofted a short iron. The wind didn’t like that shot so it seldom landed where I wanted. I finally began to hit little punch shots with much better results. Three is a shortish par five. The landing area for the tee ball is a little saddle. Hit a good tee shot and the green is reachable on the second shot. The problem is that the green sits in the dunes, and the slope of the fairway slopes from left to right. You can hit a safe shot short of the green or you can hit a rope hook that can run onto the green.
Pat walked off the seventh green and found an excellent punchbowl site for an extra part three. He walked off the 12^th green, looked south, and saw a natural green site, so he made my favorite par three, 12a. It is a mirror image and reminiscent of Calamity at Portrush. He also has fun. The 12^th green is 127 yards long.

[Michael Moore]

Does the course come with remainder copies of
 
Golf's Great Twin Miracles: Ballyliffin
 
Beyond His Lordship's Wildest Dream - Rosapenna
 
and
 
The Perfect Golf Links - The Links of the European Club in Pictures with Musings on Golf Architecture
 
?

[Scott Warren]

Most magazines have The European Club ranked high. So there are people who think highly of it. I'm not sure why some of you have to be so mean.

Has anyone been mean? I think most have just expressed surprise that the asking price is €35m for a course that briefly appeared in the Golf Mag World Top 100 in the same questionable era as Oitavos Dunes.


In a region that offers exceptional golf courses left and right and has sustained demand for new world class golf (and the land on which to build it) if you fancy building your own legacy from scratch, €35m seems a lot for 20 holes of world top 200 golf and a large if uninspiring suburban family home as a clubhouse.

[John Kavanaugh]

Even bullys vote for homecoming queen.


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44113.0.html

[Tim Gallant]

The land is great. And there’s no need to change the course.


The routing is very solid. The stylistic choices and design philosophy that Pat Ruddy made were his choices and are his legacy.


Why are you all so keen to see every ODG course “restored”, sometimes under a false guise; but are all too quick to wipe out the one course of a modern architect that really matters as an original vision?

Ally,


Well said, and I agree. I'd rather see an original RTJ course preserved in the same way I would want to see Strantz preserved. It recalls an era of golf course development that will still be worthy of study to understand how the art form has changed over time. In my mind it is absolutely worth preserving the European as the ultimate expression for what Pat Ruddy was and is as a golf course architect.

[Adam Lawrence]

Most magazines have The European Club ranked high. So there are people who think highly of it. I'm not sure why some of you have to be so mean.

Has anyone been mean? I think most have just expressed surprise that the asking price is €35m for a course that briefly appeared in the Golf Mag World Top 100 in the same questionable era as Oitavos Dunes.


In a region that offers exceptional golf courses left and right and has sustained demand for new world class golf (and the land on which to build it) if you fancy building your own legacy from scratch, €35m seems a lot for 20 holes of world top 200 golf and a large if uninspiring suburban family home as a clubhouse.

There is zero chance of new true linksland being built on in Ireland. EU law makes it utterly impossible.  The only reason St Patrick’s was permitted is that there was golf there before.

[Niall C]

Adam


Perhaps you've highlighted one reason why someone might pay a premium over the real value for the European and that is so that whoever buys it can develop a links course.


Niall

[Daryl David]

All the back and forth about whether the asking price is too high has me scratching my head wondering who offered Mr. Ruddy 35 million back in 2005. I also wonder what they bought instead. 


From Top 100 Golf Courses bio of Mr. Ruddy:


In 2005, Pat was offered more than €35 million for the European Club from a group that planned to add a second course (designed by somebody like Jack Nicklaus or Tom Fazio) at Brittas Bay.

[Tom_Doak]

All the back and forth about whether the asking price is too high has me scratching my head wondering who offered Mr. Ruddy 35 million back in 2005. I also wonder what they bought instead. 

There was a similar offer made for Rosapenna back then, I was told.  The Irish tiger was flying high.

[Daryl David]

All the back and forth about whether the asking price is too high has me scratching my head wondering who offered Mr. Ruddy 35 million back in 2005. I also wonder what they bought instead. 

There was a similar offer made for Rosapenna back then, I was told.  The Irish tiger was flying high.

No kidding!

[M_JDJ]

Does anyone have any idea as to what typically happens to membership in private / precedent club sales like this? From what I understand, it is probably at the full discretion of the purchaser.

[Cal Carlisle]

Adam


Perhaps you've highlighted one reason why someone might pay a premium over the real value for the European and that is so that whoever buys it can develop a links course.


Niall

I was thinking the very same thing, Niall. It's the same reason someone paid $1.8 million for the rusty shell of a '54 Ferrari 500 Mondial Spider last year. There were only 13 made, but more importantly, it still has the VIN number, which qualifies it to be rebuilt by Ferrari.

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