[Padraig Dooley]

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/the-european-club-ardanairy-brittas-bay-co-wicklow/4822363
The European Club is for sale with offers around €35 million.

The valuation maybe a little on the high side but 1,000 life memberships at 50,000 or 2,000 life memberships at 25,000 would secure it and have some capital left over to use for a fund to run the club.

[Tom_Doak]

Is there a membership now?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Is there a membership now?

Yes about 80 members.

[Daryl David]

Interestingly according to an old article about Mr. Ruddy, he supposedly turned down an offer of more than 35 million Euros in 2005. Not much appreciation in the last 19 years. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Interestingly according to an old article about Mr. Ruddy, he supposedly turned down an offer of more than 35 million Euros in 2005. Not much appreciation in the last 19 years. 

Whether this is true or not, he backed out of a deal that was all but done 6 months ago because they let him know they’d be looking to bring in Gil Hanse.


I hope it is true.


The most I’d want a buyer to do is a bit of tidy-up on the course. Certainly would be against a full-scale stylistic renovation.

[Ben Stephens]

Interestingly according to an old article about Mr. Ruddy, he supposedly turned down an offer of more than 35 million Euros in 2005. Not much appreciation in the last 19 years. 

Whether this is true or not, he backed out of a deal that was all but done 6 months ago because they let him know they’d be looking to bring in Gil Hanse.


I hope it is true.


The most I’d want a buyer to do is a bit of tidy-up on the course. Certainly would be against a full-scale stylistic renovation.

35 million Euros in 2005 would be 50% more today so it would have been over 50 million Euros!


Will be interesting to see who buys the European

[Marty Bonnar]

Cabot European has a certain ring to it…

[Ally Mcintosh]

Cabot European has a certain ring to it…

Marty, I reckon almost zero chance that Pat would sell to Cabot given the obviousness that they would change his course completely. And the restrictive planning laws in Wicklow for lodges / accommodation would probably restrict their interest in buying.


Complete speculation on my part for both sides, of course! I agree the name has a certain ring to it in light of the rapid expansion of the Cabot brand.

[Michael Morandi]

Interestingly according to an old article about Mr. Ruddy, he supposedly turned down an offer of more than 35 million Euros in 2005. Not much appreciation in the last 19 years. 

But then he would have missed out on the pleasure of manning the snack bar and regaling us with stories.  Only played it once, but remember him to be a character.

[David_Tepper]

Can someone explain how this property is worth anywhere near the asking price, even with the 3 residences and the clubhouse? Can the course be operated at a profit large enough to justify that price?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Can someone explain how this property is worth anywhere near the asking price, even with the 3 residences and the clubhouse? Can the course be operated at a profit large enough to justify that price?

It would need the ability to earn a profit of 3,500,000 Euros a year. So probs a 20,000 Euro a day turnover, which is hard to do in winter.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Maybe there is another way to think about this sale. Not everything is about recouping your money quickly if it is a cash sale.
Art sells for enormous prices.
$ 185 million for a Marilyn Monroe portrait three years ago and just a couple of weeks ago
$ 46 million for dinosaur bones.

Golf art, like the European Club, has virtues similar to those of high-priced art and can gain value over the years: it can be a repository for wealth.

[Brian Finn]

Maybe there is another way to think about this sale. Not everything is about recouping your money quickly if it is a cash sale.
Art sells for enormous prices.
$ 185 million for a Marilyn Monroe portrait three years ago and just a couple of weeks ago
$ 46 million for dinosaur bones.

Golf art, like the European Club, has virtues similar to those of high-priced art and can gain value over the years: it can be a repository for wealth.

Is there any precedent for such gain in value of a golf course as artwork?

[Charlie Goerges]

Maybe there is another way to think about this sale. Not everything is about recouping your money quickly if it is a cash sale.
Art sells for enormous prices.
$ 185 million for a Marilyn Monroe portrait three years ago and just a couple of weeks ago
$ 46 million for dinosaur bones.

Golf art, like the European Club, has virtues similar to those of high-priced art and can gain value over the years: it can be a repository for wealth.

That's super interesting as a philosophical question. I seriously wonder what the law of unintended consequences would inflict upon us if any significant number of courses were treated in the manner of fine art.




Now there are other things which get purchased and held in that way sometimes, I'm thinking of sports franchises. There the owners are always complaining about losing money on the deal but for the fact they buy it for hundreds of millions and then sell them for billions. I also wonder what the law of unintended consequences would inflict upon us if courses were treated in this manner as well.

[David_Tepper]

There is a big difference between a painting or a sculpture and a golf course as a "work of art." The former is a static object that requires relatively little maintenance or upkeep, aside from making sure it is secure from theft or damage. A golf course is a living thing that requires a certain amount of maintenance weekly if not daily. The level of staffing needed to do that is not inconsiderable and it is an ongoing expense.

No doubt there are Middle Eastern potentates and hedge fund tycoons who could fund that level of staffing without blinking an eye, at least for some period of time.

[David Kelly]

It has instantly become a bad time to have the course on the market.

[Tommy Williamsen]

A highly rated world-class golf course is rarely for sale. It will be interesting to see who purchases it and for what price.

[Garland Bayley]

A highly rated world-class golf course is rarely for sale. It will be interesting to see who purchases it and for what price.

[Scott Warren]

I imagine you could buy a far better golf course than The European Club for significantly less than €35,000,000.

[Steve Lapper]

I imagine you could buy a far better golf course than The European Club for significantly less than €35,000,000.

+1

[Niall C]

A highly rated world-class golf course is rarely for sale.

Yeah ? Which world class course is for sale ? 


Niall

[Scott Warren]

Doesn’t need to be world class to be better than TEC!

But world class and for sale, let’s start with Cape Wickham and reportedly St Andrews Beach.

€35m is GB£30m, US$40m or AU$60m, you could buy a damn lot of golf courses with that coin.

[Steve_Lovett]

I played European Club several years ago and met Pat Ruddy while I was there.


I don't think anyone pays $40mm in USD for European Club as it is. I thought the site was marvelous and the potential of the golf course and place was way beyond what was there. What's the ceiling for a place like the European Club - is there a case study somewhere in the world for what it could be?

[Niall C]

What did the Donald pay for 2 genuine links courses, one of which had held several Opens, plus a rather large hotel ? From memory it was something like £25m to £30m. Now arguably, the hotel possibly didn't add much value but it's a lot more real estate for less money, and that includes at least one, and possibly two, much better courses.


Perhaps better comparisons would be Mark Parsinens sale of his share of Kingsbarns and then the most recent sale of Castle Stuart. Anyone know the price of CS ?


Niall

[Simon Barrington]

Maybe there is another way to think about this sale. Not everything is about recouping your money quickly if it is a cash sale.
Art sells for enormous prices.
$ 185 million for a Marilyn Monroe portrait three years ago and just a couple of weeks ago
$ 46 million for dinosaur bones.

Golf art, like the European Club, has virtues similar to those of high-priced art and can gain value over the years: it can be a repository for wealth.

Is there any precedent for such gain in value of a golf course as artwork?

Only takes a single buyer with funding for a trophy property, they may have many undeclared reasons for ownership...the value can be as an investment asset (for future sale) or store of value (gets $ into a physical asset) or for Tax and/or Operating Losses to offset gains elsewhere in their portfolio or simply a whim/flight of fancy.


I do not wish to guess why (nor suggest in any way why, in case any Trump Lawyers are reading this) but according to Wiki the Trump Organisation paid a reported $60mln for the Turnberry Resort, and is rumoured to have spent more than three times that in investments since owning it, SLC Turnberry Ltd (the owner operating company) made losses of c.$4.6mln in 2021 (from last reported filings in 2023)...

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