[Rob Marshall]

Tightly mowed runoff areas and approaches. They seem to be in vogue lately and I wanted to know what the thoughts are here? Everyone just grabs a putter. Seems like they take away some of the need for shortgame skill and creativity. They run almost as fast as the greens. Are courses going overboard with these areas? You always see them at the Open but this year the US Open also.

[Ally Mcintosh]

It’s the other way round, isn’t it Rob?


Tightly mown areas mean three options: Lob, bump or putt.


Rough usually just means lob.

[Rob Marshall]

It’s the other way round, isn’t it Rob?


Tightly mown areas mean three options: Lob, bump or putt.


Rough usually just means lob.

Ally, I’m not saying putting is the only option. I’m saying 90% of the time people just putt. I retired at the end of 2023. I spent the winter in Florida working on a variety of shots and being more creative at Jeff Warne’s suggestion. In Florida you can’t really use putter so I worked on flops, hybrids, bumps,…..but the areas I’m talking about are tight, very tight. Bumps for sure, and I hit a spinny 58 off it today but the average player just grabs putter. Heck you see tour pros grabbing putter all the time. I play with a +4 former mini tour player and he putts them almost all the time.


I also think out of rough your still varying shot height etc, and yes usually with a lob wedge.

[Thomas Dai]

Worth mentioning that short grass allows mis-directed shots to bounce and roll further away from the target whereas longer grass or light rough of the manicured kind prevents shots from rolling further away.


As to whats in vogue, well way back in time it was pretty much all short grass nibbled by grazing animals and it produced the perfect height of grass for fairways. In some places it still does. Indeed in some places there are only two heights of cut .. putting surfaces and wide fairways with unkempt areas elsewhere.


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[Tom_Doak]

I’ve spent some time talking with Padraig Harrington about this for The Renaissance Club.  He agrees with the premise that tightly mown areas are too easy to putt from now — because the standard of turf maintenance in those areas is so much tighter than years ago, and because all the little irregularities of real links undulations have been smoothed away.


He’s tried to convince us to put in some “rumble strips” of rough to make putting a lower-percentage recovery!


Honestly, though, when you watch the Tour players, they are so good with every club around the greens, it hardly matters what you make them do.

[Ben Sims]

I’m so conflicted on this topic. Yeah the best players have the coordination to use almost any club off the tight lies. But they’re also pretty good out of the one-option fluffy lies too. Hackers use easiest option in both scenarios, putting or bumping it off tight and pitches off fluffy.

So I guess that leaves height of cut as the proper solution? A higher fairway cut (and by default green surrounds) would go a long way to alleviating a ton of issues in the modern game. Sure having a higher height of cut would enhance soft conditions. But maybe that’s the cost.

This all leads down the road of turf condition expectations. In my country, it seems players expect uniform conditions year round and aren’t accepting of climactic conditions drastically changing the way the ball interacts with the ground. Heaven forbid the super/GM/committee lets fairways and green surrounds get really firm during dry conditions.

[Ira Fishman]

We tend to focus on length and putting when we talk about how good the pros are, but their short games are really what distinguishes them plus their imagination on recovery shots.


Regarding the question, I think much depends on the green surrounds. The tight mowing at Troon (and links courses generally) bring the bunkers into play which I think adds to the challenge/strategy. Where there are meaningful run offs, the putter often is not the best choice even for amateurs so I think tight mowing does what Ally says in terms of options. But it certainly should not be a one size fits all choice.


PS who doesn’t love the cool hooked runner that Lawrence hit today out of fescue along tight mowed green surround?

[Jeff Schley]

It doesn't matter to me, however if u have quite a few bunkers around the green as well then putting isn't an option nearly as much.


I was amazed how good these guys are put of the deep deep bunkers and hitting it to inside 5 feet. Amazing.

[Thomas Dai]

Eyebrows?

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[Erik J. Barzeski]

We tend to focus on length and putting when we talk about how good the pros are

I don't know who "we" are in this, but it doesn't include me. The closer you are to the hole (i.e. putting, especially), the smaller the difference between you and a PGA Tour player. Approach shots first, driving second…

, but their short games are really what distinguishes them plus their imagination on recovery shots.

This is not true.

[Ian Andrew]

Tightly mowed runoff areas and approaches. They seem to be in vogue lately and I wanted to know what the thoughts are here? Everyone just grabs a putter. Seems like they take away some of the need for short game skill and creativity. They run almost as fast as the greens. Are courses going overboard with these areas? You always see them at the Open but this year the US Open also.

Rob, players putt because they're not confident enough to play the most accurate option they have. They putt because they are minimizing the risk of a poor outcome at the expense of removing variables. Greens tend to run true, but chipping areas have subtle microundualtions.


[Architects] use them because the ball doesn't stop close to the green because there's no longer long rough to save the near-miss. It places a greater premium on accuracy on the approach. The tight lies also make the chip or pitch back a little harder.


But for the high handicap, they are a welcome addition. As soon as they're on a chipping area, they can putt or chip and feel comfortable about what's in front of them. That's why they are popular and well used.

[Rob Marshall]

It doesn't matter to me, however if u have quite a few bunkers around the green as well then putting isn't an option nearly as much.


I was amazed how good these guys are put of the deep deep bunkers and hitting it to inside 5 feet. Amazing.

At my course there is rough around the bunkers. The tight lie surrounds are where there are no bunkers. There are no shots like the one Cam Smith putted around the bunker at St Andrew’s.

[Rob Marshall]

Tightly mowed runoff areas and approaches. They seem to be in vogue lately and I wanted to know what the thoughts are here? Everyone just grabs a putter. Seems like they take away some of the need for short game skill and creativity. They run almost as fast as the greens. Are courses going overboard with these areas? You always see them at the Open but this year the US Open also.

Rob, players putt because they're not confident enough to play the most accurate option they have. They putt because they are minimizing the risk of a poor outcome at the expense of removing variables. Greens tend to run true, but chipping areas have subtle microundualtions.


[Architects] use them because the ball doesn't stop close to the green because there's no longer long rough to save the near-miss. It places a greater premium on accuracy on the approach. The tight lies also make the chip or pitch back a little harder.


But for the high handicap, they are a welcome addition. As soon as they're on a chipping area, they can putt or chip and feel comfortable about what's in front of them. That's why they are popular and well used.

Ian,
I get what you are saying but when the run offs aren’t very long and are relatively flat the only penalty is when the ball comes to rest against the collar of the rough. When you look at how far the ball rolls at #2 or Troon I agree 100% with what you are saying. Bumping it into a  slope or hitting a spinner off a tight lie is great fun. But the reality is most people will take a putter. When you are hitting a bump, flop, or chip the question that arises is how will the ball react on the first bounce. Using a putter you have eliminated that variable.


I loved playing in Florida this year using Hybrid, flops or hitting bump and runs, but when you have greens running 10 and run offs relatively flat running 8 or 9 what are most people going to do?


Thinking it thru, it’s probably not the run off it’s self, but how tight and fast the ball runs on them. Maybe todays maintenance is too good?

[Tim Martin]

Rob-If I have a route to the hole I’m putting most of them around the greens. The decision is made easier off of super short/tight grass. I admire the talent to play the other shots you described.

[Kalen Braley]

I think a missing component to this discussion is where balls end up.

On Tour and in the US in general (perhaps with a few exceptions), it usually just means further away.

But this weekend for example?  I lost count of how many times they ran into a small, penal bunker leaving an awkward and typically more difficult next shot.

[Rob Marshall]

Rob-If I have a route to the hole I’m putting most of them around the greens. The decision is made easier off of super short/tight grass. I admire the talent to play the other shots you described.

Tim, when I think the easiest play is putting and most of the time I think it is, I’m doing the same way your doing. The old saying that your worst putt is better than your worst chip goes a long way.

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