Drifting in Donegal Dos:Rosapenna ST PATRICK'S

[Sean_A]

What is that brown sandy area in the foreground just on the 4th fairway? Is that a new bunker? It is quite a steep ridge and I noticed in some photos I took, that it wasn't as closely mown as the rest of the fairway; probably due to the more severe slope.

I played with a chap on the grounds staff. He said it definitely isn't planned to be a bunker, just GUR for a reason I don't recall.

Ciao

[Sean_A]

Paths to the rear of the 14th - https://www.bing.com/maps?cp=55.163531%7E-7.828756&lvl=17.7&style=a
atb

Cheers!

Ciao

[Sean_A]

St Pat's Tour Cont

Despite being severely downwhill, the sixteenth remains a bruiser par 4. I am not sure how this was achieved because the hole is 487 yards from the daily tee.
 

 

From casual conversation it seems as though the short 17th is a favourite hole of many; I can understand why. I was taken by the hole not only for the many ways it can play due to its three tiers, but also because of its simple beauty.
 

I find it far easier to go for the bounce in shot when the hole is located on the middle tier compared to the other two tiers. A look at the green from well right up in the dunes.
 

I may be in the minority, but I like the 18th. I played it from the forward tee (275ish) every time because it was a shorter walk, but I reckon the hole may play easier for me from well back. There are two hollows, one well right and short and the other just shy of the green.


It might be easier to come in from the left where the green has some give. There is no forgiveness for those who go long.


The architect took some chances with St Pat's and pulled off something extraordinary. Its usually the case where large dunes are present there will be narrow fairways. Nobody could say the fairways at St Pat's are remotely narrow, which is in stark contrast to Sandy Links and OTM. It is quite possible to play the St Pat's with one ball.

St Pat's runs over, around and between dunes for the entire ride yet rarely dictates how the course will be played. There are two main elements which distinguish St Pat's. First, the fairway movement ranges dramatically from small to large. Each fairway is of itself and potentially creates ball flight challenges. Second, the huge undulating greens are impressive. The massive size of the surfaces can make holes play very differently from day to day. This influence stretches beyond the greens to surrounding features such as bunkers or rough ground. One day a feature can be the star attraction and the next have a non-speaking part. This is more the case where many of the surfaces have short grass areas flowing seamlessly into the putting surfaces.

If I had to compare the routing to any GB&I course it would Sandwich, perhaps that is why I admire St Pat's so much. The one big difference between the courses is despite the scale, Sandwich can sometimes feel unreasonably constricted. St Pat's, on the other hand, fully embraces it's massive scale. 1* 2024

Previous Stops on the Drifting in Donegal Tour Tres

Cruit Island
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59070.0.html

Gweedore
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,72960.0.html

Dunfanaghy
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,72967.0.html

Rosapenna Sandy Hills
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59240.0.html

Rosapenna OTM
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59189.0.html


Drifting in Donegal Uno

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59070.msg1388131.html#msg1388131 Cruit

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59189.msg1391553.html#msg1391553  Rosapenna OTM LInks

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59240.msg1392946.html#msg1392946  Rosapenna Sandy Hills

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59129.msg1390457.html#msg1390457  Portsalon

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59008.0.html   Narin & Portnoo

Ciao

[Sean_A]

Are the green to tee walks harsh at St Pat's? I found myself in a debate on the walks, falling on the alright side. But that opinion may well be clouded by my willingness to mix tees. Trying to think back, it seems to me that the issue may be more about getting to high ground for some tees? The walks to 2, 5, 7, 10, 11, 13, 17 & 18 aren't short, but not excessive. The only walk I found a bit annoying is the 5th. That was mainly because the sets of tees are fairly long, in a straight line. Plus, trying to see the tee marker colour was hard so we had to dart in from the path to check the colour then go back to the path to find the right colour.

I found trying to see the marker colour an issue for much of the round. They seem to be shades of a similar colour?

Could it be that folks are rolling the generally up and down walk in with the green to tee walks? I really am perplexed.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Are the green to tee walks harsh at St Pat's? I found myself in a debate on the walks, falling on the alright side. But that opinion may well be clouded by my willingness to mix tees. Trying to think back, it seems to me that the issue may be more about getting to high ground for some tees? The walks to 2, 5, 7, 10, 11, 13, 17 & 18 aren't short, but not excessive. The only walk I found a bit annoying is the 5th. That was mainly because the sets of tees are fairly long, in a straight line. Plus, trying to see the tee marker colour was hard so we had to dart in from the path to check the colour then go back to the path to find the right colour.

I found trying to see the marker colour an issue for much of the round. They seem to be shades of a similar colour?

Could it be that folks are rolling the generally up and down walk in with the green to tee walks? I really am perplexed.

Ciao

I'm not sure about green to tee walks specifically, but the course as a whole is a long walk. When I was there in 2021, observing not playing, I walked the front nine one morning. Now, I wasn't just walking the course as a golfer would -- I was going back and forth and exploring a lot. But over my lunch I checked my phone, and it said I had walked 20,000 steps that morning.

[Sean_A]

If the course isn't overly long in terms of yardage and yet it is a long walk, what else causes this except transitions between holes? I am now curious about the total walk. I assume for steps the up and down terrain boosts the number, no?

Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean


I've no idea about yardage but St Pats strikes me as being a big scale course. While the walks between holes aren't particularly long from what I remember, you don't have too many holes where you fall off a green straight on to the next tee. The closest one I can think of is 11/12. However apart from length there is a fair amount of elevational change which seems to me something you get more of in Ireland than perhaps you do in mainland Britain. That's certainly got to add to the "feeling" of it being a long walk.


Niall

[Sean_A]

There are a few spill onto the next tee moments at St Pat's. 3/4, 5/6, 7/8, 8/9, 11/12, 13/14 and 15/16. I was actually quite surprised at how many short transitions there are for a modern course. But many folks think the transitions are tough. One guy described the walk as brutally difficult!

Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean


Thanks for jogging my memory. I just spent a very pleasant few minutes looking on google earth and you are correct. The 8/9 probably being the prime example. Mind you it wasn't easy discerning on google earth where the greens finished and where the tees began which I tend to think is a compliment to the shaping/design.


As for the brutal walk comments, I wonder if it is coming from regular buggy users who aren't used to walking and maybe aren't able to put the walk into context of having walked a lot of other courses ?


Niall

[Thomas Dai]

My recollection is that on most holes, not all, most, you walk past the back tee to get to the middle/front tees. If your playing from the middle/front tees this may well give the impressive of long green to next-tee walks but if your playing from the back tees it probably doesn't. There certainly aren't that many walk back holes. The walks to/from the 'clubhouse', 1st tee, 18th green and carpark may also impact folks perceptions. Could be wrong though.
Magnificent course. Great part of the World. Wish I was there now.
atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

The way I look at the walks:


Spill on to next tee: 8-9; 10-11; 13-14
Close / easy green to tee: 2-3; 3-4; 4-5; 11-12; 16-17
Not ideal, usually created by landscape, including walk-backs: 5-6; 7-8; 12-13; 14-15; 15-16; 17-18
Large dune necessitated walks: 1-2; 6-7


Pretty decent return for the site. Carne - for instance - would have 5 or 6 that fit in to that last category.

[Niall C]

Another thing to consider is the size of the greens. If a hole location happens to be on the "wrong" side of the green that could add another 20-30 yds to the walk to the next tee 


Niall

[Sean_A]

Sean


Thanks for jogging my memory. I just spent a very pleasant few minutes looking on google earth and you are correct. The 8/9 probably being the prime example. Mind you it wasn't easy discerning on google earth where the greens finished and where the tees began which I tend to think is a compliment to the shaping/design.


As for the brutal walk comments, I wonder if it is coming from regular buggy users who aren't used to walking and maybe aren't able to put the walk into context of having walked a lot of other courses ?

Niall

I think you are probably right. Although, much depends on which tees one plays. I admit that my perception is tainted by a willingness to play whichever tees....meaning not wed to the card.

Ciao

[Brett Meyer]

I agree that some of the green to tee walks seem a bit long but I think it's entirely a function of the landscape. Given the size of the dunes and the fact that there's a good amount of elevation change on the property, if you're trying to have a light touch on this landscape, you're going to have some decent walks--especially to different sets of tees because if you try to eliminate this, you're going to create some very awkward tee shots. I'd also note that Sandy Hills, which also seemed to be trying to have a light touch on the landscape (one that I appreciated after seeing Pat Ruddy's hyperactive bulldozer work on the Ballyliffin Glashedy course), has the same issue.

So this didn't strike me as a problem design wise. Where I did have a problem--and you note this in your comment about the tee marker colors Sean--is that signage at the Rosapenna resort in general is terrible and makes it very difficult to get around the property. I appreciate the idea of using different (I assume) local rocks for different sets of tee markers, but I'm not a geologist and I can't tell these rocks apart just by looking at them. They should at least be painted.

Also, I got lost trying to find the next tee several times on both St. Patrick's and Sandy Hills because often when you leave a green, there are (very nice) fairway height paths going in several directions and it's often not clear which one you should be taking because there aren't signs saying where these various paths go. I often guessed correctly, but sometimes I didn't.

Finally, it's also an issue getting to St. Patrick's. The entrance to the course is almost impossible to see if you aren't looking very carefully and there's only one small road sign on the way there telling you that it's approaching. I ended up almost missing my tee time because I missed the entrance and drove almost another 10 minutes down the road.

[Dan_Callahan]

I didn't find the green to tee walks to be onerous. I mean ... it is a rugged site. Part of what makes it so spectacular is the scale of the dunes. The tradeoff is that there are bound to be some steep climbs here and there.


I agree with the tee markers bit. I was very confused during my first play. I also somehow managed to miss a turn coming off the 4th tee ... went left around a dune instead of right ... and found myself walking down a completely wrong fairway. And during one of my plays a group of ladies in front of me got lost going from 14 green to 15 tee. But all of that is easily fixed with some very basic signage. I attributed the confusion to playing the course when it hadn't been open long, and I'm sure as they get feedback they'll address some of this.

[jeffwarne]

Plus, trying to see the tee marker colour was hard so we had to dart in from the path to check the colour then go back to the path to find the right colour.

This(tee colors that look alike) has become so common, in a world where clutter has become such a topic-yet the same courses don't hesitate to use multiple grass varieties and multiple mowing heights(insane visual clutter), and have scorecards incredibly cluttered with dozens of combo tees/yardages.....ick)


I know of at least one course where tees are all the same color.()
At another, in an event i just played you could only tell what tees they were by being behind the tees(small colored circle on back of each tee), which meant you had to walk all the way back to know the color of the tee. An easy opportunity to play the wrong tee at worst, and at best a play slowing move.

[Tom_Doak]

St Patrick’s is a sturdy walk because there is a lot of elevation for a links course, though as someone remarked, this is generally true of the famous Irish courses (Portmarnock not included).


There are a handful of longish green to tee walks, but I think I did the best I could to keep them reasonable.  A lot of people (including me) skip the walk back to the back tee on 18 and just play it from 300 yards.

[Sean_A]

St Patrick’s is a sturdy walk because there is a lot of elevation for a links course, though as someone remarked, this is generally true of the famous Irish courses (Portmarnock not included).


There are a handful of longish green to tee walks, but I think I did the best I could to keep them reasonable.  A lot of people (including me) skip the walk back to the back tee on 18 and just play it from 300 yards.

Maybe my thoughts on the walk are also clouded by how we played. I never take big breaks between nines. My time at St Pat's was far more "social" than usual.

Ciao

[Marty Bonnar]

We’re off to Ireland in the MoHo next month. Not really planning on playing much o’ the gowf but got St Patrick’s booked. (Gotta increase my ‘Doakage’ collection, somehow!)
Any updates on this thread that might be useful? (Tee markers fixed, directional stuff, clubhouse completion, etc, etc).
PM me if you’d prefer.
Ta in advance,
F.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Lucky you.  Have been twice now and I'm planning a return.


It still feels new. The stones are still out for tee boxes and the portakabin is still very nice!
Go slow along the road as the first time we drove straight past; the signage is also low key.
I don't believe SkyCaddie have mapped it yet, but someone in my group had a system that worked.


As a geek take the time to have a really good look at the far corners of the greens. There are some wild positions and of course you only get to play one of them. Some greens must play 3 or more clubs different in the same wind.
There really is lots of fairway on 10 and have fun feeding balls to the 17th! Some of the best architecture is on 10,11,12. Originally this was to be the opening but they have the worst views. So reverse the 9's and make these holes so interesting you never look up! I'm sure there's so much to learn there...


If you have time visit the resort clubhouse and check out how different the other two courses are.

[Sean_A]

The Drifting in Donegal Tres Tour stopped by Rosapenna St Pat's for a quick game. Nothing much more to add except that I remain highly impressed. However, I would like to see the course when its propertly firm, but until then, for me St Pat's it comfortably top 5 in Ireland. Please see the updated tour.

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,71512.0.html

Ciao