Wind, playability, and acceptance.

[Ben Sims]

I don’t have an anemometer in my bag. But I would think I have a distinctly better idea of wind direction and speed than the average civilian. Plus I have an array of apps on my phone that I can check and regularly do for work.


With apologies to anyone that might be offended, talk of play over 35mph sustained is hard to believe. I can see fleeting gusts of 40+ being a factor. In the conditions that prompted this thread, we were seeing 30mph +/- sustained and when a few of the squalls hit, gusts of 40. This was confirmed by the father of a greenkeeper, who said they were seeing 40mph winds.


Bottom line, we were a gnats ass away from unplayable greens and if they’re rolling an inch over 8ft here, I’d be shocked. More likely 7ft or less.


The tee shots on holes 5-8 at Machrihanish in those winds rival ANY course I’ve ever played in difficulty. In calm conditions (one club wind) on a sublime twilight round last night, those tee shots are much easier but still pretty fearsome.

[Sean_A]

Golf can definitely be played in 35 mph wind. I have done it a few times this year. It’s not pleasant nor ideal, but the slower greens made it possible. I have played in steady 45-50 mph with gusts up to 60 at Muirfield…it wasn’t playable. Balls rolled all over greens etc. we couldn’t reach fairways off the tee. I don’t see how folks could find this fun, especially given the high green fees these days.

Ciao

[Michael Felton]

Agree Tony, it isn't us golfers fault in that judging wind is like asking how far you hit your 7 iron. Golfers will almost always think of the farthest they have ever hit it and say 175.  Probably for wind we feel it the same way in gusts and overestimate.
At Rye Golf Club (and perhaps other clubs) in a hallway to exit and go play the course, they have what looks like a WWII era panel with an array of small light bulbs in a circle.  You flip a toggle switch and the direction of the wind is relayed (from an old wind gauge on the clubhouse) to a couple bulbs noting wind direction and a needle mechanical gauge shows the speed.  Very, very cool and foolproof.

RCP used to have an anemometer in the clubhouse (they might still). I remember playing a round in the Hewitt in 1998 against Gavin Hastings (Watson's). It was windy. The anemometer was showing a steady 45mph gusting to 55mph. That was tough. It started hailing on us on the 8th hole. That was about the least pleasant golf course experience of my life.


Playing RSG a couple of years ago again in the Hewitt and it was extremely windy. I hit a 4 iron on 12 from 125 yards that started left of the hut, was still going up when it went across the green and my partner wound up with a 50 yard pitch from the other side of it. That's about the windiest I've played in recently. I got some video of the flags at the clubhouse at Deal that week. You could barely talk to each other it was so loud.

[Mark Pearce]

On the other hand, my first round at Turnberry was in winds that were reported at 70-80 MPH and I loved it, perhaps because back then I could actually hit a 1 iron.

I can assure you that you did not play golf in winds between 70 and 80 mph.  It's very difficult to stand in winds at that speed.  Impossible to swing a club.  Or even attempt to.

Mark,


I understand your skepticism. I have never been in a hurricane, but that day back in late 1980s was unlike anything I have experienced on a golf course or anywhere else.


When we were playing, it was like a war zone. It was difficult to stand or swing a club, just like you suggest. Forget distance. A 100 yard 3 iron along the ground was a great shot. A 220 yard sand wedge (down wind, of course) was easy.


We had no idea what the wind speed was. The 70-80 MPH figure is what staff in the pro shop told us. We heard the same figure on local news when we got back to our room.


One other data point. About a week after we played there was a senior professional event played at Turnberry and winds were reported at 50-60 MPH.


Guess what? Some of the scores were in the 80s, but many failed to brake 90.


In short, conditions on that day were extreme, but quite real and not something I would care to do again.


Tim

Tim,


It's not skepticism, it's fact.  I used to work in wind tunnels.  It is hard to stand in 50mph winds.  At 70-80, damage is inevitably done to intrastructure.  Whatever the pro shop staff told you, it wasn't true.  Similarly, 50-60mph winds at Turnberry might happen sometimes but nobody is playing golf in them.


Exaggerating wind speeds is one of my real bugbears on here.  Anything much above a steady 20mph is difficult to play in, anything much over 30mph very, very difficult.


Mark

[Mark Pearce]

Golf can definitely be played in 35 mph wind. I have done it ready a few times this year. It’s not pleasant nor ideal, but the slower greens made it possible. I have played in steady 45-50 mph with gusts up to 60 at Muirfield…it wasn’t playable. Balls rolled all over greens etc. we couldn’t reach fairways off the tee. I don’t see how folks could find this fun, especially given the high green fees these days.

Ciao

Again, see my answer to Tim.  Where did the measurements of wind speed come from on the few times this year you have played in 35mph winds?  As to steady 45-50mph winds, at that speed you have to lean into the wind to walk.  There is no prospect at all of standing still over a ball, swinging a club and hitting the ball.

[Mark Pearce]

I don’t have an anemometer in my bag. But I would think I have a distinctly better idea of wind direction and speed than the average civilian. Plus I have an array of apps on my phone that I can check and regularly do for work.


With apologies to anyone that might be offended, talk of play over 35mph sustained is hard to believe. I can see fleeting gusts of 40+ being a factor. In the conditions that prompted this thread, we were seeing 30mph +/- sustained and when a few of the squalls hit, gusts of 40. This was confirmed by the father of a greenkeeper, who said they were seeing 40mph winds.


Bottom line, we were a gnats ass away from unplayable greens and if they’re rolling an inch over 8ft here, I’d be shocked. More likely 7ft or less.


The tee shots on holes 5-8 at Machrihanish in those winds rival ANY course I’ve ever played in difficulty. In calm conditions (one club wind) on a sublime twilight round last night, those tee shots are much easier but still pretty fearsome.

This.

[Tim Gallant]

On the other hand, my first round at Turnberry was in winds that were reported at 70-80 MPH and I loved it, perhaps because back then I could actually hit a 1 iron.

I can assure you that you did not play golf in winds between 70 and 80 mph.  It's very difficult to stand in winds at that speed.  Impossible to swing a club.  Or even attempt to.

Mark,


I understand your skepticism. I have never been in a hurricane, but that day back in late 1980s was unlike anything I have experienced on a golf course or anywhere else.


When we were playing, it was like a war zone. It was difficult to stand or swing a club, just like you suggest. Forget distance. A 100 yard 3 iron along the ground was a great shot. A 220 yard sand wedge (down wind, of course) was easy.


We had no idea what the wind speed was. The 70-80 MPH figure is what staff in the pro shop told us. We heard the same figure on local news when we got back to our room.


One other data point. About a week after we played there was a senior professional event played at Turnberry and winds were reported at 50-60 MPH.


Guess what? Some of the scores were in the 80s, but many failed to brake 90.


In short, conditions on that day were extreme, but quite real and not something I would care to do again.


Tim

Tim,


It's not skepticism, it's fact.  I used to work in wind tunnels.  It is hard to stand in 50mph winds.  At 70-80, damage is inevitably done to intrastructure.  Whatever the pro shop staff told you, it wasn't true.  Similarly, 50-60mph winds at Turnberry might happen sometimes but nobody is playing golf in them.


Exaggerating wind speeds is one of my real bugbears on here.  Anything much above a steady 20mph is difficult to play in, anything much over 30mph very, very difficult.


Mark

Don't give up Tim. I provided photographic evidence of playing in 60mph winds and was shot down


But I do agree Mark, most times we exaggerate the wind we've played in. Wind speed doesn't matter. It only really matters if you're enjoying your game. If not, then it's too windy for you. Everyone has a different threshold and to each his own. And as you say, there's a max threshold where playing isn't even possible. I accept that.

[Sean_A]

Golf can definitely be played in 35 mph wind. I have done it ready a few times this year. It’s not pleasant nor ideal, but the slower greens made it possible. I have played in steady 45-50 mph with gusts up to 60 at Muirfield…it wasn’t playable. Balls rolled all over greens etc. we couldn’t reach fairways off the tee. I don’t see how folks could find this fun, especially given the high green fees these days.

Ciao

Again, see my answer to Tim.  Where did the measurements of wind speed come from on the few times this year you have played in 35mph winds?  As to steady 45-50mph winds, at that speed you have to lean into the wind to walk.  There is no prospect at all of standing still over a ball, swinging a club and hitting the ball.

Yes, we leaned into the wind. Yes, we were routinely thrown off balance during swings. Balls flew back into bunkers. It was crazy and by far the windiest I have played golf in. Muirfield wouldn’t refund our money so we went out, but it was clearly unplayable.

This year I have played several rounds in 30-35 winds. Crazy wind in Scotland this year and I am the sort that thinks 10 is plenty of wind and 20 too much.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

I'm with Mark on this one.

Stories of golfers playing 18 holes in high wind when facts tell us just standing up is very difficult in said wind, seems akin to the fisherman tales of the big one that got away. Or perhaps simply KPH is being confused with MPH.

Either way these stories are GCA lore, so why not right?   

[Tim Martin]

When the survival instinct kicks in it’s hard to effectively evaluate the golf course. If it’s your first play/only play you have the one impression to draw on and that’s it. People(myself included) will spend an afternoon in insane conditions on a golf trip that when given the same weather at home wouldn’t walk out to their mailbox. There is something about just finishing the round in the conditions Ben is describing that is gratifying putting everything else aside.