Protesters

[John Kavanaugh]

I ran out of nice things to say.

[Tim Martin]

I ran out of nice things to say.

[Jim O’Kane]

I ran out of nice things to say.

I like the other things you say just as much.

[Anthony Butler]

Only a robot would believe that the sun is the worst enemy of our youth.

it's actually all the particles the sun bounces off before it gets to our youth that's the problem.

[Anthony Butler]

These days the idea of what constitutes a "protest" is completely out of bounds vs. what a normally functioning society should expect, and allow -- it is truly ridiculous.

Do you really believe that bullshit from yesterday might actually spur someone to "change their opinion"?

Chris:


I didn't see the protest; I don't watch golf on TV except for little bits of the majors.


The very problem nowadays is that no one seems willing to change their opinion on anything, so, no, these protests probably won't help.

If you didn't see it, how can you comment on it?

What took place yesterday in no way constituted a "protest" -- it was a criminal act that should be prosecuted harshly.

What's your opinion on the Jan. 6 'protesters' who actually killed people... should the people who provoked and conducted those activities be prosecuted 'harshly'?

Who are you referencing?

The irony here is that you need to be somewhat smart to play dumb effectively... If you need to know what I'm referencing here, let me know.

The floor is yours...

So you believe the 5 people involved in the protest on the 18th green this past Sunday should be punished 'more harshly' than the hundreds of people who participated in the events of Jan. 6 2021.. In Washington D.C. just to be clear. Try not to tip toe around the question.. the Republican shuffle is perhaps the least attractive of all wedding dances.

[Ken Moum]

These days the idea of what constitutes a "protest" is completely out of bounds vs. what a normally functioning society should expect, and allow -- it is truly ridiculous.

Do you really believe that bullshit from yesterday might actually spur someone to "change their opinion"?

Chris:


I didn't see the protest; I don't watch golf on TV except for little bits of the majors.


The very problem nowadays is that no one seems willing to change their opinion on anything, so, no, these protests probably won't help.

If you didn't see it, how can you comment on it?

What took place yesterday in no way constituted a "protest" -- it was a criminal act that should be prosecuted harshly.

What's your opinion on the Jan. 6 'protesters' who actually killed people... should the people who provoked and conducted those activities be prosecuted 'harshly'?

Who are you referencing?

The irony here is that you need to be somewhat smart to play dumb effectively... If you need to know what I'm referencing here, let me know.

AB, play nice.  Surely you know the only person killed on 1/6 was shot by a cop.

[V. Kmetz]

What took place yesterday in no way constituted a "protest" -- it was a criminal act that should be prosecuted harshly.

What's your opinion on the Jan. 6 'protesters' who actually killed people... should the people who provoked and conducted those activities be prosecuted 'harshly'?

AB, play nice.  Surely you know the only person killed on 1/6 was shot by a cop.

Ok, felony assault, attempted murder...of dozens...

[Jeff Taylor]

The whole situation is deeply frustrating.

On the one hand, obviously climate change is the most pressing issue of my generation and those under 40: we know what's happening -- literally the predictions from the 70's are happening almost exactly as they were predicted -- we are already seeing horrific effects (even uprisings/wars) as a result -- we know what we have to do to stop it, but nobody wants to change their lifestyle (we can't even get effective climate-focused lifestyle legislation, like increased density, gas-to-electric mandates, or real transit alternatives, in San Francisco of all places).

On the other hand, the protests are becoming spiteful. Everyone knows it's happening, and anyone who is ignoring their own lying eyes, has wrapped their identity in so much zealotry that it doesn't matter. So the protests effectively exist as overtly annoying folks who the protestors see as complacent. In America, golf is a symbol of those people, so the golf world suffers instead of, say, dressage events. It's not changing any minds, and it's not even informing anyone of anything. It's just saying, if you aren't going to do something substantial, we're going to try to make sure you're miserable, which is ineffective, and probably counter-productive. It makes any good-faith changes or priorities of the sport look like capitulation.

The good news is that professional golf is effectively entertainment, which means these disturbances are effectively symbolic, unlike the concrete filled golf holes at Sebonack. I would expect things could be much, much worse, as any clever chemistry major could do real damage to a golf course if they wanted to, likely without being caught, just walking around the course as a spectator during a practice round.

I'd hope golf culture could could come out strongly in favor of sustainability, but as long as the country club remains a symbol of fuck-you-I've-got-mine, then I'm not holding my breath.

Gonna need some sauce on that 1st paragraph. You state it like it's true. Way back when I used to care about this issue, everything I could read about this assertion could not defeat the null hypothesis. The zealotry comes from you.
It always fun to see "greenies" protesting with all that green in the background. BTW, it's not hard to find principles of sustainability in golf course architecture. Look up Andrew Green. What a great name for our times.
As for climate-focused lifestyle legislation, you take care of your lifestyle and I will take care of mine.
Lastly, country clubs are not a symbol of "I've got mine". Maybe they are a symbol of "you don't have mine." But I do endorse the idea of you holding your breath. The longer you hold it, the fewer carbon PPM in the atmosphere.

[Jeff Taylor]

A couple of things immediately came to mind on seeing this incident …..

1) Participant, spectator, staff etc safety -  eg the terrible Monica Seles incident

2) From the golf perspective this quote from an interview with a wise participant herein …. “A game dependent on so much of the earth’s acreage on a shrinking planet with finite resources is inevitably going to be on the wrong side of history..”

Where and on what basis will further protests occur? Hopefully there won’t be any but ……

atb

The planet is shrinking? 

[Matt Schoolfield]

On the one hand, obviously climate change is the most pressing issue of my generation and those under 40: we know what's happening -- literally the predictions from the 70's are happening almost exactly as they were predicted -- we are already seeing horrific effects (even uprisings/wars) as a result -- we know what we have to do to stop it, but nobody wants to change their lifestyle (we can't even get effective climate-focused lifestyle legislation, like increased density, gas-to-electric mandates, or real transit alternatives, in San Francisco of all places).

Gonna need some sauce on that 1st paragraph. You state it like it's true. Way back when I used to care about this issue, everything I could read about this assertion could not defeat the null hypothesis. The zealotry comes from you.
It always fun to see "greenies" protesting with all that green in the background. BTW, it's not hard to find principles of sustainability in golf course architecture. Look up Andrew Green. What a great name for our times.
As for climate-focused lifestyle legislation, you take care of your lifestyle and I will take care of mine.
Lastly, country clubs are not a symbol of "I've got mine". Maybe they are a symbol of "you don't have mine." But I do endorse the idea of you holding your breath. The longer you hold it, the fewer carbon PPM in the atmosphere.

I'm not exactly clear on what you're looking for citations on:

2020 seemed to be the high point for climate change as an existential issue with 58% of young folks wanting the gov't to do something "even at the expense of economic growth," down to 50% of young folks pushing for climate change policy over economic policy. Citation: Harvard Kennedy School.

We know what's happening: NASA

Predictions from the 70's are happening almost exactly as they were predicted: Exxon Climate Models from 1977.

We are already seeing horrific effects (even uprisings/wars) as a result: Arab Spring and the influence of increased food price fluctuations.

We know what we have to do to stop it: a fairly thorough explainer from the National Academies (National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, Institute of Medicine, National Research Council)

The rest of your comment seems to be a non sequitur, but I'll say I fully agree that there are plenty of examples of sustainability in golf course architecture, but as long as courses in Phoenix are overseeding perfectly playable dormant bermuda, I don't think anyone is going to hold those select courses' principles as the standard, though that seems to be becoming policy in nations like the Netherlands, so that's a plus.

[Greg Hohman]

Matt, an idea for your GCA extension: a feature that enables, after a certain number of posts or pages, a vote for the winner of a thread, especially threads like this one. You get my vote here. The functionality could perhaps include a leaderboard. I can think of names for the top and bottom of many discussions here, but have no supporting data.

[Matt Schoolfield]

Matt, an idea for your GCA extension: a feature that enables, after a certain number of posts or pages, a vote for the winner of a thread, especially threads like this one. You get my vote here. The functionality could perhaps include a leaderboard. I can think of names for the top and bottom of many discussions here, but have no supporting data.

I appreciate the sentiment. I do try really hard to maintain good-faith discussion here. I do think it's probably best if we can keep any feature requests in the specific extension thread, if only to keep this thread as on-topic as possible. I'll shoot you a response on the complexities of the technicals there.

[Greg Hohman]

Meant half-seriously, Matt. The "serious" side I will try to explain on the dedicated extension thread.

[Greg Hohman]

Meant half-seriously, Matt. It is on-topic here and on the dedicated extension thread, where I will try to explain a bit.

[Tim_Cronin]

A friend who has responsibilities at a PGA Tour tournament was watching Hartford on a DVR delay and didn't know this happened. I mentioned it and when he saw it said, "This is going to ruin it for everybody." In other words, more security, people kept farther back from greens, longer lines to get in (checking for vials of stuff to throw – there were no smoke bombs at Hartford), and so on.


I was impressed CBS showed it and didn't cut away as is the case at baseball and football games. As I noted elsewhere, I would have been more impressed with the seven protesters if they had gone up the road to New Hampshire and managed to run on the track during the NASCAR race, where the cars are powered by petroleum products.

[Greg Hohman]

I was impressed CBS showed it and didn't cut away as is the case at baseball and football games. As I noted elsewhere, I would have been more impressed with the seven protesters if they had gone up the road to New Hampshire and managed to run on the track during the NASCAR race, where the cars are powered by petroleum products.

+1

[Chris Hughes]

These days the idea of what constitutes a "protest" is completely out of bounds vs. what a normally functioning society should expect, and allow -- it is truly ridiculous.

Do you really believe that bullshit from yesterday might actually spur someone to "change their opinion"?

Chris:


I didn't see the protest; I don't watch golf on TV except for little bits of the majors.


The very problem nowadays is that no one seems willing to change their opinion on anything, so, no, these protests probably won't help.

If you didn't see it, how can you comment on it?

What took place yesterday in no way constituted a "protest" -- it was a criminal act that should be prosecuted harshly.

What's your opinion on the Jan. 6 'protesters' who actually killed people... should the people who provoked and conducted those activities be prosecuted 'harshly'?

Who are you referencing?

The irony here is that you need to be somewhat smart to play dumb effectively... If you need to know what I'm referencing here, let me know.

The floor is yours...

So you believe the 5 people involved in the protest on the 18th green this past Sunday should be punished 'more harshly' than the hundreds of people who participated in the events of Jan. 6 2021.. In Washington D.C. just to be clear. Try not to tip toe around the question.. the Republican shuffle is perhaps the least attractive of all wedding dances.

What in the world would prompt you make an outlandish (and false) statement like that?

[JLahrman]

Matt, an idea for your GCA extension: a feature that enables, after a certain number of posts or pages, a vote for the winner of a thread, especially threads like this one. You get my vote here. The functionality could perhaps include a leaderboard. I can think of names for the top and bottom of many discussions here, but have no supporting data.

+1, that's two votes for Matt.


This thread has predictably gone off the rails pretty quickly, after only three pages. When I see a thread that has reached 10 pages, it's a fun exercise to read only the posts on the first page and the last page to compare how far off track the discussion has gone.

[Bruce Hospes]

Matt, an idea for your GCA extension: a feature that enables, after a certain number of posts or pages, a vote for the winner of a thread, especially threads like this one. You get my vote here. The functionality could perhaps include a leaderboard. I can think of names for the top and bottom of many discussions here, but have no supporting data.

+1, that's two votes for Matt.


This thread has predictably gone off the rails pretty quickly, after only three pages. When I see a thread that has reached 10 pages, it's a fun exercise to read only the posts on the first page and the last page to compare how far off track the discussion has gone.

HaHa, I do that too.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Me too. Sort of like the kids’ game telephone

[Mark Pearce]

At a minimum, that was an act of criminal vandalism combined with theft of services...

...and from Akshay Bhatia's perspective it was a full-on terror attack.

A heinous act that took nearly 73 seconds to get under control. Thankfully they had a leafblower on the premises or who knows what might've happened. Just imagine if the playoff had been delayed, or even moved to a different hole. Horrifying to think about, really.

Akshay said he was afraid for his life...

He probably needs to get out more, don't you think?

[Chris Hughes]

At a minimum, that was an act of criminal vandalism combined with theft of services...

...and from Akshay Bhatia's perspective it was a full-on terror attack.

A heinous act that took nearly 73 seconds to get under control. Thankfully they had a leafblower on the premises or who knows what might've happened. Just imagine if the playoff had been delayed, or even moved to a different hole. Horrifying to think about, really.

Akshay said he was afraid for his life...

He probably needs to get out more, don't you think?

I can't speak for Akshay but if you're interested in his personal account it's detailed here:


https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/i-was-scared-for-my-life-akshay-bhatia-shares-first-person-account-of-moment-protestors-ran-onto-the-18th-green-at-the-travelers-championship

[Matt Schoolfield]

I can't speak for Akshay but if you're interested in his personal account it's detailed here:

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/i-was-scared-for-my-life-akshay-bhatia-shares-first-person-account-of-moment-protestors-ran-onto-the-18th-green-at-the-travelers-championship

Akshay Bhatia had every reason to be terrified. We live in a part of the world where terrorism is a valid concern, and the protestors used smoke grenades, which are legitimately threatening, as nobody knew that the gas being released was harmless (I'm specifically thinking of the Tokyo Subway attacks is a precedent for such concern).

While I think we all would prefer that the protesters here would have followed legitimate channels to voice their concerns, I want to be on the record that protesters, even those who intent be disruptive, should maintain a non-threatening appearance and demeanor. That means no potential weapons. Just signs.

[Chris Hughes]

I can't speak for Akshay but if you're interested in his personal account it's detailed here:

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/i-was-scared-for-my-life-akshay-bhatia-shares-first-person-account-of-moment-protestors-ran-onto-the-18th-green-at-the-travelers-championship

Akshay Bhatia had every reason to be terrified. We live in a part of the world where terrorism is a valid concern, and the protestors used smoke grenades, which are legitimately threatening, as nobody knew that the gas being released was harmless (I'm specifically thinking of the Tokyo Subway attacks is a precedent for such concern).

While I think we all would prefer that the protesters here would have followed legitimate channels to voice their concerns, I want to be on the record that protesters, even those who intent be disruptive, should maintain a non-threatening appearance and demeanor. That means no potential weapons. Just signs.

Great points Matt.

[archie_struthers]

Tom Doak nails it, with few and accurate arrows.

Jason Thurman is hilarious. Go back to his post and reread it.

I'm a progressive, so a lot of you frighten me. We share golf, so I stick around.

 this is why I'm against this here on GCA ....i didn't know I frightened RON