Not that Mike Keiser needs more accolades......

[Kalen Braley]

Erik,

You make great points, but I think Tom does to.  The courses at Bandon are certainly in the "best of the best" category as it relates to publicly accessible golf in the US, so the analogy seems to hold compared with prices of the best in other entertainment choices.  Thankfully thou, there is no shortage of "Best Western" or "Chilis" priced golf.

And $500 for a courtside seat?  That's dirt cheap compared to an NBA game, much less a playoff game in The Garden.

P.S.  Utah does well in offering world class outdoor activities at a bargain.  Outside of skiing, pretty much everything else is very affordable like an Annual Parks Pass where you can visit all of Utah's jaw dropping National Parks for less than $100 total.

[Jerry Kluger]

I think that sometimes we forget something very basic about the game we love - the vast majority of golfers do not belong to private clubs and they are not the ones who are going to resorts like Bandon Dunes.  We can say that Bandon is fairly priced but it is the private golf club member who looks at $1,000 a day to play golf as being a price that one is willing to pay.  The courtside seats at an NBA game are not something which very many people would consider.  I think that the RTJ Trail better represents a price point that a much larger percentage of golfers would consider.  I am fortunate that I can afford to pay some pretty high greens fee but that doesn't mean I would be willing to pay it.  Also, I would be shocked if any of the highly regarded private clubs in the US would ever consider allowing public play as opposed to golf courses in the UK or Ireland which have used that business model for many years.

[Daryl David]

Also, I would be shocked if any of the highly regarded private clubs in the US would ever consider allowing public play as opposed to golf courses in the UK or Ireland which have used that business model for many years.

Not just shocked. Drop dead gobsmacked. Why would anyone who paid $100s of thousands to join and is paying $50k a year in dues want people that are not their guests visiting!  Look, the model in the US different. Not better, not worse. UK members don’t care about exclusivity. They care about total cost. Good for them. Those in the US that belong to the clubs we are talking about believe the opposite. Nothing wrong with that. Good for them. It’s just the way it is.

[Tom_Doak]

For $500, my wife and I would rather go on several day trips or have ten pretty good meals out rather than one super fancy meal. For $500 I'd rather play a local course with two or three good buddies ten times than play one course once, especially if it's with strangers. Heck, I considered whether to "splurge" to play the Old Course when I was there. (I didn't consider it for very long, but it wasn't an immediate "whatever it costs!" either.)

I wouldn't call $500 rounds "affordable" though. But golf is a wealthier sport, so…
 

Erik:


I didn't call it "affordable" either.  I understand $500 is a lot of money for most people to pay for any sort of recreation.  Oddly, though, it's not too much to pay for you to get on a plane and go to Scotland to play their more affordable courses.


This thread wasn't really supposed to be about the price of golf at all, but it morphed to that because Mr. Keiser built courses open to the public and charges what HE thinks is a fair price.  And there are plenty of customers willing to pay it, which is one definition of "affordable".


Also, reports of my wealth are probably exaggerated.  I'd wager your house is worth more than mine, because of where you live.  Prices run on supply and demand.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

This thread wasn't really supposed to be about the price of golf at all, but it morphed to that because Mr. Keiser built courses open to the public and charges what HE thinks is a fair price.  And there are plenty of customers willing to pay it, which is one definition of "affordable".

Oh I don't fault them for applying supply and demand/basic economic principles!

Also, reports of my wealth are probably exaggerated.  I'd wager your house is worth more than mine, because of where you live.  Prices run on supply and demand.

The cost of living in Erie, PA is pretty darn low. My wife is a teacher and I'm… also a teacher (of golf). We "splurged" on half price shakes at Sonic tonight.    They were a bit less than $500. Ha ha ha.

https://cityof.erie.pa.us/golf/

Downing - a decent muni here (hosted like the 1969 U.S. PubLinks) is under $35 for 18 holes. With a cart.

[Sean_A]

Also, I would be shocked if any of the highly regarded private clubs in the US would ever consider allowing public play as opposed to golf courses in the UK or Ireland which have used that business model for many years.

Not just shocked. Drop dead gobsmacked. Why would anyone who paid $100s of thousands to join and is paying $50k a year in dues want people that are not their guests visiting!  Look, the model in the US different. Not better, not worse. UK members don’t care about exclusivity. They care about total cost. Good for them. Those in the US that belong to the clubs we are talking about believe the opposite. Nothing wrong with that. Good for them. It’s just the way it is.

I would be willing to allow a controlled number of visitors if I was a member of a US club. I wouldn’t campaign for the idea, but if it came to a vote a would tick yes.


Ciao

[Matt Schoolfield]

Look, the model in the US different. Not better, not worse. UK members don’t care about exclusivity. They care about total cost. Good for them. Those in the US that belong to the clubs we are talking about believe the opposite. Nothing wrong with that. Good for them. It’s just the way it is.

There isn't a model in the US vs a model in the UK. It's written into the law. With respect, my entire point is that you can't say something is a "club culture" when that culture is mandated by the IRS.

The reason why I brought it up in relationship to Mr. Keiser, and his cultural influence, is exactly that I was gobsmacked upon hearing that his exclusive Dunes club, and it's 110 members are, in fact, welcoming to a nobody like myself. I know that he is carefully phrasing it, because they aren't actually allowed to just state it plainly. You should see the folks whose eyes light up when I tell them about clubs that I know are welcoming to visitors who reach out. I'm arguing that we should just legalize it, because there are plenty of respectful, genuinely good people who just don't know the shibboleths that we do.

I like clubs more than resorts, because it's nice to play along side the regulars, and in the way they do. I'd even argue that one of the reasons why American golf is so stroke play-centric is exactly that most players here will never have the opportunity to visit a club where foursomes or even match play is the normal game. I see Keiser's insistence on operating his clubs (public & private) more in the way Scottish clubs are allowed to as being a very big deal. I just think many people realize don't quite realize that the "King of Clubs" (has he's called in the article) even wanting to operate his clubs this way is a major cultural shift.