Bryson & Rory

[cary lichtenstein]

I thought after watching the US Open for 4 straight days, rooting for both Bryson & Rory, I'd drop my 2 cents in here.


I wanted Rory to win in the worst way, I root for him every time he plays. He is soooo smooth, the best swing in golf since Freddy Couples. I wanted him to break his 10 year drought.


Bryson was a giant surprise. Boy did he ever want it and despite missing fairway after fairway, he came up with one great shot after another.


The terrible drive on 18, watching him almost unable to make a decision what to do. And then, a 55 yard bunkers shot to 4 feet, omg, unbelieveable. Bryson wanted it more.


We've all missed 3-4 footers, leaving the blade a little open at impact, easing into it. tough to hit it hard out of fear of running it 6-7 feet by.


Bryson's all around behaviour was great, he has grown up and is a star. He celebrated like the Tiger of old.


Bryson won me over, while I never liked the greens that rejected ball after ball, Bryson was the last man standing, Bravo!!!!!!!!

[Rob Marshall]

I agree with everything you said. One thing that was touched on, and Bryson even mentioned it. He tried to get line of sight relief on 18. Not being there but from TV it looked like line of sight only would have applied if he needed to hit a big cut but that option wasn’t possible because of the position of the root. I guess it never hurts to ask but he had to know there was no way he was entitled to it.


He played great. He’s worked hard to try and change his image. That was a great par!


I’m not sure Rory ever gets over this. He needs to make a call to Steve Williams. Harry looks like a deer in the headlights. With Steve Williams they change game plans when Cam Smith started his run, Steve Williams gets LaCava out of Rory’s way in the Ryder Cup, Rory attacks the last par 5 in LA last year with the right guidance. The next time you see Harry discussing a shot with Rory will pretty much be the first. Obviously just my opinion….hope Rory wins the British…

[cary lichtenstein]

I too hope Rory wins the British Open, but somehow I think he won't make the cut, the brain does terrible things to a great swing at times and Rory is very vunerable.

[Charlie Goerges]

Someone elsewhere mentioned that pro athletes are different than us and that these types of losses don’t affect them the same way they would you or me. I tend to agree, but they are human, so there is probably some effect; but it may even be positive.


Heck, it will be a huge positive if it gets him to do Rob’s Steve Williams idea. His friend can be his road manager and Stevie can carry the bag.

[Sean_A]

I agree with everything you said. One thing that was touched on, and Bryson even mentioned it. He tried to get line of sight relief on 18. Not being there but from TV it looked like line of sight only would have applied if he needed to hit a big cut but that option wasn’t possible because of the position of the root. I guess it never hurts to ask but he had to know there was no way he was entitled to it.


He played great. He’s worked hard to try and change his image. That was a great par!


I’m not sure Rory ever gets over this. He needs to make a call to Steve Williams. Harry looks like a deer in the headlights. With Steve Williams they change game plans when Cam Smith started his run, Steve Williams gets LaCava out of Rory’s way in the Ryder Cup, Rory attacks the last par 5 in LA last year with the right guidance. The next time you see Harry discussing a shot with Rory will pretty much be the first. Obviously just my opinion….hope Rory wins the British…

If it were me, I would expect relief in that situation. Left of the green would have been totally out of play for me in that situation. Plus, why should there be a risk of essentially hitting what was effectively a temporary wall? But then I am constantly amazed at how close people are to the path of play for recovery shots. Jeepers, those people crowding around DeShambles recovery shot from the trees was madness.

Ciao

[Chris Hughes]

I’m not sure Rory ever gets over this. He needs to make a call to Steve Williams. Harry looks like a deer in the headlights. With Steve Williams they change game plans when Cam Smith started his run, Steve Williams gets LaCava out of Rory’s way in the Ryder Cup, Rory attacks the last par 5 in LA last year with the right guidance.

Great points...

[JohnVDB]

I agree with everything you said. One thing that was touched on, and Bryson even mentioned it. He tried to get line of sight relief on 18. Not being there but from TV it looked like line of sight only would have applied if he needed to hit a big cut but that option wasn’t possible because of the position of the root. I guess it never hurts to ask but he had to know there was no way he was entitled to it.

Line off sight for a TIO only applies if it directly between the ball and the hole.  You can’t say you want to play a cut but the TIO is in your way for that shot. There was a lot of wishful thinking in his comment. 

[Rob Marshall]

I agree with everything you said. One thing that was touched on, and Bryson even mentioned it. He tried to get line of sight relief on 18. Not being there but from TV it looked like line of sight only would have applied if he needed to hit a big cut but that option wasn’t possible because of the position of the root. I guess it never hurts to ask but he had to know there was no way he was entitled to it.

Line off sight for a TIO only applies if it directly between the ball and the hole.  You can’t say you want to play a cut but the TIO is in your way for that shot. There was a lot of wishful thinking in his comment.

John,
If the root was on the right side of the ball so they only way he could hit the shot was to hit a cut that he needed to start at the grandstand he would not be entitled to relief?  I wonder why he even asked?

[Jim_Coleman]

   As my wife (sometimes annoyingly) says,”Questions are free.”

[Jim Tang]

A young Rory was crushed when he faltered during the final round of the 2011 Masters. He then used that experience as rocket fuel to dominate the very next major, the U.S. Open, and win his first major. I'm hoping history repeats itself and Rory wins The Open next month.. He certainly will be the overwhelming sentimental favorite. It should be spectacular theater.

[JohnVDB]

I agree with everything you said. One thing that was touched on, and Bryson even mentioned it. He tried to get line of sight relief on 18. Not being there but from TV it looked like line of sight only would have applied if he needed to hit a big cut but that option wasn’t possible because of the position of the root. I guess it never hurts to ask but he had to know there was no way he was entitled to it.

Line off sight for a TIO only applies if it directly between the ball and the hole.  You can’t say you want to play a cut but the TIO is in your way for that shot. There was a lot of wishful thinking in his comment.

John,
If the root was on the right side of the ball so they only way he could hit the shot was to hit a cut that he needed to start at the grandstand he would not be entitled to relief?  I wonder why he even asked?

Rob. Here is the meaning of Line of Sight Relief:

(2) Meaning of Line of Sight Interference by Temporary Immovable Obstruction. Line of sight interference exists when:
   •   The player’s ball touches or lies in, on or under a TIO, or
   •   The TIO is on the player’s line of sight to the hole (that is, the TIO is located on the straight line between the ball and the hole), or
   •   The ball is within one club-length, measured on an equidistant arc from the hole, of a spot where the TIO would be on the player’s direct line of sight to the hole (this one club-length wide area is commonly referred to as the “corridor”).

So it either has to be directly on the straight line between the ball and the hole, or within a club-length of that line.  It has nothing to do with the type of shot you wish to play.


The extra club-length is so that the player has some room to maneuver the ball.  It is why you’ll see players getting TIO relief by measuring one CL and then a second one and dropping between them.


Many years ago Annika had a case in the desert where she got proper relief from a GIO and then tried to say she should get more because she wanted to hook the ball so it was still in her way.  Needless to say, it was denied.  Otherwise, a player could continue to say they needed more relief until they got to a better lie or location.

[Rob Marshall]

Thanks John.

[JLahrman]

Many years ago Annika had a case in the desert where she got proper relief from a GIO and then tried to say she should get more because she wanted to hook the ball so it was still in her way.  Needless to say, it was denied.  Otherwise, a player could continue to say they needed more relief until they got to a better lie or location.

John, when someone brought up the intended cut I thought back to a situation with Annika. The 2003 US Open, won by the mysterious Hilary Lunke, is what I thought of. I'm not sure if this is the one you're referring to. Annika wound up bogeying the 72nd hole to miss a playoff by one shot. She'd hit her second to the par 5 way right, and wound up with a lengthy but interesting conversation with the rules official.


Here is the full broadcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qzB_c_92lE

At 3:36:50 is where she hits the shot way right.

At 3:49:30 her caddie brings up wanting to play the shot out right to let it feed to the hole, and wanted extra relief. But the rules official informed them that you base relief on a straight line to the hole, not on the line you want to play your shot. So she didn't get extra relief.

Annika knew the rules better than most pros (as mentioned in this video, she had attended a 3-day rules seminar a few years prior). And as someone mentioned, questions are free. No harm in asking but the request was denied.

Please don't ask me why I remember this situation from 21 years ago while I can't remember what I had for dinner last night, but it was an interesting incident.

[Pete_Pittock]

J Larman,
That was played on JVDB's home come.

[JLahrman]

J Larman,
That was played on JVDB's home come.

I knew he was in Oregon but did not realize he was based at Pumpkin Ridge.

[JohnVDB]

It was my home course.  I had already left Oregon and Pumpkin Ridge by 2003 and was living in Pittsburgh.


When I made my post above, I purposely mentioned the incident I was referring to as on that it happened in the desert as I wasn’t referring to the one from the US Women’s Open.


The official at Pumpkin Ridge was Kendra Graham who was a USGA Rules employee. She left the USGA for a few years but was recently on the Executive Committee and was chair of the Rules of Golf Committee from 2019 through last year.


Annika did attend a workshop which would help with her basic knowledge but TIOs are not taught in the regular workshops.