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Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Choose your “F-Word”
« on: June 14, 2024, 04:29:59 PM »
Heading into a tv break, Dan Hicks called Pinehurst #2 “fair, fast and firm.”  I beg to differ. I’d offer up frustrating or fickle or fearsome but the word fair is only appropriate for this setup because every player has to try to cope with this maniacal golf course.

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2024, 04:41:00 PM »
Wide fairways. Plenty of club on ball from waste areas. Lots of putts made. Patient play rewarded. There are good scores out there. I disagree with you.

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 14, 2024, 05:46:47 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2024, 04:42:00 PM »
Wide fairways. Plenty of club on ball from waste areas. Lots of putts made. Patient play rewarded. There are good scores out there. I disagree with you.


Ciao


Good counterpoint.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2024, 04:53:19 PM »
I haven’t enjoyed a golf viewing experience this much in awhile. I have never seen professional golfers experience a lot of the same things I seem to face as a recreational golfer quite like this before. Not necessarily the conditions. Clearly it’s outrageously more difficult than what we duffers normally face. But these guys are so good and their touch so deft that it’s rare we see them deal with the same variance of result (skill based result and luck based results) as the duffer.


Also, see Rory’s round today as an illustration of Sean’s point.


That said, I’m still not sold that PH2 is a “10” watching this tournament. Not that my TV watching judgement means anything until I actually see it.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2024, 04:55:36 PM by Ben Sims »

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2024, 05:34:52 PM »
These guys are pro's...weaknesses are few....the course is totally "fair".  Would it be fair if I was competing with this field? Of course not. But "fair" , to my way of thinking,  means everyone has a fair chance to score....or not.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2024, 07:12:30 PM »
Fully Fair for proFessionals and Fun to watch.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2024, 09:00:37 PM »
Not me, I never liked the way they set up US Open Courses and still don't. Greens that reject well hit shots, give me a break. I don't mind the waste areas at all.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2024, 09:13:27 PM »
I don’t mind a tough setup for a major, but this is bordering on farcical. I’ll agree that those who are succeeding are doing so because they are executing a strategic plan to avoid missing the fairway and trying to stay beneath the hole.


Having said that, there are way too many examples of a putt just missing the hole but then rolling 25 feet off the green. And way too many instances of a player trying to get back on a green after descending into a roll off, only to have it pull an Elvis and have it “return to sender.”


Whoever wins will surely have earned it. I’m just not sure that I want to spend much time watching the pain and suffering over the weekend.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2024, 09:13:35 PM »
I never had a desire to pay the exorbitant fee to play #2. Watching the last two days of the US Open may have changed my mind. I love the way the course is playing and the challenge of the greens.

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2024, 08:35:38 AM »
I never had a desire to pay the exorbitant fee to play #2. Watching the last two days of the US Open may have changed my mind. I love the way the course is playing and the challenge of the greens.


If you played in the off season or shoulder season pre-covid it wasn't exorbitant. It's only in the last four years that it's gotten  really expensive. (Now $360 for a round on #2 in the off season IIRC) I last played #2 in December 2019. The grass was dormant and was a great, reasonably priced round as part of a stay & play package with lodging at the Holly Inn that included breakfast at the Carolina Hotel.  I'm hesitant to return at current rates, but do want to see #10.


David Cronan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2024, 08:48:45 AM »
I find the setup and subsequent tournament to be eFFing Foolhardy, Farcical and Fruitless. I won't be watching a shot the rest of the weekend.


One thing that I've never understood is the enjoyment people take in watching the emotional states ofPROFESSIONAL golfers being Fractured due to course conditions, and then justifying their comments by stating, in effect, "now they know how us duffers feel." Do tennis "fans" root for Nadal to pull a hamstring, Djokovic to double fault or Alcaraz to hit into the net? What is it about golf that brings out such satisfaction in seeing the failures of others? It's frustrating enough for weekend duffers, but I can't imagine what pros experience. We don't have to look too far back to see the emotional toll it can inflict on people.


Thank God the USGA is only allowed to "protect par" once a week per year. Were they in charge of the golfing world, we never would have heard the name Seve Ballesteros.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2024, 03:07:33 PM »
Bump.

Hi Terry,

My best "F" word is fair.  The other meaning.

My criticism has to do with the "native" rough areas.  They are unique to modern tournament golf.  I have trouble with the concept that professional players must contend with a unique style of rough for the national championship.  The pros never hit out of wire grass or unmaintained sand, and every eight or nine years at Pinehurst they are required to do so any time they miss the fairway.

Furthermore, there's a big difference between the best and worst lies in the native areas.  Therefore, the role of luck plays a considerable role in the player's performance.  I can't say for sure whether the variability in luck is greater here at Pinehurst, but I think it probably is.

For us TV viewers, the course has a rather homogenous look.  It's hard to know which hole you are watching, but by Sunday I'll begin to recognize them better.


The first page of the leaderboard has a lot of big hitters.  Although the tournament historically favors the straight hitter, Pinehurst may favor the power player.


Finally, I like Akshay Bhatia, and hope he plays well today.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2024, 06:58:55 PM by John Kirk »

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2024, 03:59:15 PM »
John K - agree with you about the "homogenous" look on the TV coverage.  I have never played PH, but many/most of the shots to and around greens look similar on the broadcast.  While I feel like I could recognize any shot at ANGC, Pebble, Riv...not so at PH.


David C - no one is wishing that a pro will hit a shank, or turn an ankle walking out of a bunker, but the fact is that no one in the field is shooting 80, but par or plus/minus a few shots it typical, so that beats the weekly -20 result on tour, or even in the most recent major.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2024, 04:02:36 PM »
I take it there's a reason these guys aren't landing short of the green and running the ball on? 
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2024, 04:06:51 PM »
It's a little overstated, David. No.2 isn't physically wounding anyone. Anything can be anyone's 13th Reason I suppose, but I don't think a course setup warrants that particular prosecutorial angle.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2024, 04:40:27 PM »
I take it there's a reason these guys aren't landing short of the green and running the ball on?


They are hitting short irons to most greens, and the green is nearly always 2-3 feet above the approach, so the ball is not going to run up for them like it might for my 4-wood.


However, tomorrow, you will see many of the guys not in contention playing deliberately to the front edge, where it’s less stressful to chip and putt for par and preserve your 25th place finish, if not move up a few spots vs the guys who are still chasing birdies.

Michael Morandi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2024, 04:46:18 PM »
Bump.

Hi Terry,

My best "F" word is fair.  The other meaning.

My criticism has to do with the "native" rough areas.  They are unique to modern tournament golf.  I have trouble with the concept that professional players must contend with a unique style of rough for the national championship.  The pros never hit out of wire grass or unmaintained sand, and every eight or nine years at Pinehurst they are required to do any time they miss the fairway.

Furthermore, there's a big difference between the best and worst lies in the native areas.  Therefore, the role of luck plays a considerable role in the player's performance.  I can't say for sure whether the variability in luck is greater here at Pinehurst, but I think it probably is.

For us TV viewers, the course has a rather homogenous look.  It's hard to know which hole you are watching, but by Sunday I'll begin to recognize them better.


The first page of the leaderboard has a lot of big hitters.  Although the tournament historically favors the straight hitter, Pinehurst may favor the power player.


Finally, I like Akshay Bhatia, and hope he plays well today.


I agree 100% with your remarks about the native areas.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2024, 05:58:21 PM »
Dare I say Fantastic?  Fab??
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2024, 06:04:39 PM »
Tom Doak....after the greens were grassed was a high shot considered the proper play, or was something like a bump and run from 100 yards out more common?
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2024, 06:10:00 PM »
Feisty


Formidable


Fiery


Flippant


Fatiguing


Finnicky


Fantastic




Michael Morandi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2024, 06:19:47 PM »
Hard to argue with the leader board.  My F would be felicitous.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2024, 06:29:30 PM »
Bump.

Hi Terry,

My best "F" word is fair.  The other meaning.

My criticism has to do with the "native" rough areas.  They are unique to modern tournament golf.  I have trouble with the concept that professional players must contend with a unique style of rough for the national championship.  The pros never hit out of wire grass or unmaintained sand, and every eight or nine years at Pinehurst they are required to do any time they miss the fairway.

Furthermore, there's a big difference between the best and worst lies in the native areas.  Therefore, the role of luck plays a considerable role in the player's performance.  I can't say for sure whether the variability in luck is greater here at Pinehurst, but I think it probably is.

For us TV viewers, the course has a rather homogenous look.  It's hard to know which hole you are watching, but by Sunday I'll begin to recognize them better.


The first page of the leaderboard has a lot of big hitters.  Although the tournament historically favors the straight hitter, Pinehurst may favor the power player.


Finally, I like Akshay Bhatia, and hope he plays well today.

Yes, luck in the rough is perfect. Nothing worse than a prescribed penalty for missing a fairway. That is dreadful and has no place in proper golf.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2024, 06:49:08 PM »
Feisty


Formidable


Fiery


Flippant


Fatiguing


Finnicky


Fantastic


Keep ‘em coming. Je ne suis pas Fatigue…
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2024, 07:03:17 PM »
I find the setup and subsequent tournament to be eFFing Foolhardy, Farcical and Fruitless. I won't be watching a shot the rest of the weekend.


One thing that I've never understood is the enjoyment people take in watching the emotional states ofPROFESSIONAL golfers being Fractured due to course conditions, and then justifying their comments by stating, in effect, "now they know how us duffers feel." Do tennis "fans" root for Nadal to pull a hamstring, Djokovic to double fault or Alcaraz to hit into the net? What is it about golf that brings out such satisfaction in seeing the failures of others? It's frustrating enough for weekend duffers, but I can't imagine what pros experience. We don't have to look too far back to see the emotional toll it can inflict on people.


Thank God the USGA is only allowed to "protect par" once a week per year. Were they in charge of the golfing world, we never would have heard the name Seve Ballesteros.


I love to see the pros play well on very difficult shots. They hit shots that we can only dream of. Why do you think we like to watch train wrecks?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Michael Morandi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Choose your “F-Word”
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2024, 08:05:59 PM »
Why are the fans chanting USA USA for Bryson when he left the USA Tour for LIV?  Aberg deserves better comportment. This isn’t the Ryder Cup.

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